Non-Believer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Peter Layman said: I would like to think that a career and as you so eloquently put it "give a shit" could and should go hand in hand. That being said, history has shown us that this is not the case. Maybe young blood can effect change from within. We had quite a few "new" bloods last time, of which great things were expected in respect of bringing change. Largely they carried on (sometimes inheriting, admittedly) their predecessor's routes, including the subject of this thread, what's the betting on the Prom "seeing off" two members of the next administration as well? Edited February 25, 2021 by Non-Believer extra bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Maire said: tbh its not as easy to stand as some people think, Not only do you need to have money behind you (at least a few thousand) but you need to: a - take a lot of time of work b - have a very understanding boss c - give up work Not everyone is in a position to do this, Not forgetting having a thick enough skin to take the flack from social media that is at times unjustified (sometimes justified). Also you need to take your family and how they will react into account especially if you have younger children. And being able to spot that someone is doing a bad job is not the same as being able to do that job. (https://www.goal.com/en/news/13452/opta/2016/03/30/21851192/gary-nevilles-terrible-record-at-valencia-in-full-but-he) Edited February 25, 2021 by Declan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Layman Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 36 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: We had quite a few "new" bloods last time, of which great things were expected in respect of bringing change. Largely they carried on (sometimes inheriting, admittedly) their predecessor's routes, including the subject of this thread, what's the betting on the Prom "seeing off" two members of the next administration as well? that fiasco on the promenade should see off the whole ruddy lot of them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: .......what's the betting on the Prom "seeing off" two members of the next administration as well? Forgive the edit. Why do we have to wait till then. ? And why not the Ministers involved so far ? The greatest and often repeated excuse in Tynwald is the phrase " as we all voted for ". Should there be a mechanism for removal or public deselection mid term. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Apple said: Forgive the edit. Why do we have to wait till then. ? And why not the Ministers involved so far ? The greatest and often repeated excuse in Tynwald is the phrase " as we all voted for ". Should there be a mechanism for removal or public deselection mid term. ? What I was trying to refer to was the Promenade taking the tenures of two DOI Ministers of the current administration (Harmer and Baker) and suggesting that its duration may see out two Ministers from the next administration too. They're just being taken along for the ride as Heads of Dept. None of them will have been in control of it but Ministers are duty-bound by protocol to support and defend their Depts and staff, publicly at least, hence the lack of Ministerial criticism of the obvious to date, including Baker's so far unstinting support and ongoing excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: What I was trying to refer to was the Promenade taking the tenures of two DOI Ministers of the current administration (Harmer and Baker) and suggesting that its duration may see out two Ministers from the next administration too. They're just being taken along for the ride as Heads of Dept. None of them will have been in control of it but Ministers are duty-bound by protocol to support and defend their Depts and staff, publicly at least, hence the lack of Ministerial criticism of the obvious to date, including Baker's so far unstinting support and ongoing excuses. If Baker had been a Douglas member then he would definitely be gone but up north they may not be too bothered with all the Douglas road issues and he’s building some bridges for his cycling mates . Harmer is just hopeless but now keeping his head well down and trying to distance himself from DOI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, Banker said: If Baker had been a Douglas member then he would definitely be gone but up north they may not be too bothered with all the Douglas road issues and he’s building some bridges for his cycling mates . Harmer is just hopeless but now keeping his head well down and trying to distance himself from DOI Exactly, it's the direct fault of neither but in any case, neither are directly accountable to the electorate in respect of the Prom, nobody is. The public have been continually fed utter bullshit about this job from the word "go" (uttered by Phil Gawne unsurprisingly), from the necessity of it (the undiscovered voids) to the manning (60+ men at any one time), to the scheduling and completion dates (ongoing), although if any part of those dates were predicated on the daydream manning figures then it's no wonder there's slippage. 2025 for full "completion", anybody, with the built-in remedial necessity too? I wouldn't bet against it, personally. My heart goes out to Marco Leonetti and Co with businesses down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Ministers are duty-bound by protocol to support and defend their Depts and staff, That is a problem. To use the same system in the business world, if a failing company appoints a new CEO, his responsibility would not be to the shareholders, but would be to support the current directors and employees. That would not work out well. After the Second Great Laxey Flood, there was a public meeting at which Allinson sat with the DoI staff and gave a long speech in which he said nothing more than he was sorry and he would get the trees moved out of the river. I left after his speech as it was clear nothing was going to happen. Perhaps instead of walking out I should have stood up and announced that Allinson's attitude was perfectly ok, because he was duty-bound to support the DoI staff and the people who pay his salary (the electorate and the poor sods who got flooded out) can just bugger off. But I think that would have been a bit risky. I voted for Allinson with the hope that he would sort out The Problem - which is extensive incompetence within the civil service. I will not vote for him again. How about all the other politicians who have a more minor role in departments - do they also have primary allegiance to the department rather than the electorate? By what method can competance to do the job be enforced within the Civil Service? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) As long as we have independent candidates with no party it will stay the same. Individuals cant take on the CS. Its that simple. Edited February 25, 2021 by Boris Johnson 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maire Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Apple said: And tell your bank manager about the increases in salary to explain the new car and booking holidays etc. Waste a lot of time sitting on one's backside on a Tuesday (Weds and Theirs) etc to listen to prearranged speeches, previously agreed replies and rubber stamp decisions made the week before behind closed doors. (If an MHK does not want to spend time answering or asking questions, just spin them out till 11 o'clock, turn them into written answers and the rest of the day is your own). Tell constituents you cannot possibly reply to all the calls and emails due to being overwhelmed and can not chase lost causes as political colleagues will not support it. When "working" in Douglas go shopping and see what bargains there are there, but don't mention the state of the place. Other than that maybe someone could give us an example of a typical working week then ? If you get elected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maire Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Peter Layman said: If somebody fancies a career in politics then it is very easy to get started. Posts like the one above sound like it has come from an MHK trying to protect their seat. Nope just someone who stood and lost in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Maire said: If you get elected 1 minute ago, Maire said: Nope just someone who stood and lost in the past A risk well worth it . We never seem to be too short of candidates, but just not the right ones it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Don't recall where I heard/read it but I've always been of the opinion that wanting to be a politician should automatically exclude you from being one. Do it like jury service. You get a 4 year stint on a good salary and that's it. No return. Standard exclusions for armed forces, services, etc. Never happen of course. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) Latest from Prom meeting minutes on iomtoday. Nick Black "pursuing budget discrepancies". Hope he's got his fastest Nikes on. Repairs to red concrete cracking not looking good, Auldyn's responsibility. Curved walls built and then demolished by the Sefton not within acceptable tolerances, location-wise. Auldyn's responsibility. Relaying of block work "not down to subsidence" but blocks to be relaid on different substrate. DOI responsibility. Edited March 5, 2021 by Non-Believer correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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