Numbnuts Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Black has confirmed that the job is open chequebook. There never was a "set" or realistic budget (or timescale), it always was an open-ended journey with Tynwald having no option but to keep feeding the animal on demand to fend off public and national embarrassment until such time as it is completed, which will be another story altogether. With the aforementioned snagging (18 months? Ho ho), this will go on for a lot, lot longer yet. Were this job being managed by the private sector, some people would have been dismissed long ago. Still, Beamans' is yet to come too. Perhaps that may sting some people into taking some responsibility. He might have said that now but I'm sure on starting the then minister stood by the then budget of 25 million inc plans etc. I also am sure a more than adaquate contingency budget was included as there was a uncertainty what might be found. I am equally sure they stated they would complete the job with that budget and any overspend would have to come out of the DOI general budget. Now clearly thats probably gone by the board as the umpteen cock ups and incompetence has smashed those hopes. There going back to vote through more funds due to the fact unless they do we will be left with half a prom. Its a complete mess which is going to cost millions in overspend . And seemingly they dont care ! See aditional post below from minister Edited May 6, 2021 by Numbnuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: He might have said that now but I'm sure on starting the then minister stood by the then budget of 25 million inc plans etc. I also am sure a more than adaquate contingency budget was included as there was a uncertainty what might be found. I am equally sure they stated they would complete the job with that budget and any overspend would have to come out of the DOI general budget. Now clearly thats probably gone by the board as the umpteen cock ups and incompetence has smashed those hopes. There going back to vote through more funds due to the fact unless they do we will be left with half a prom. Its a complete mess which is going to cost millions in overspend . And seemingly they dont care ! IIRC, they were voted an extra £750k last year which had to come out of the Heritage Rail budget. It's clear that Harmer and Baker simply regurgitate what the DOI spoon-feed them for public consumption, the DOI could have said that the job was going to cost 50p and the outcome would be the same; endless extra funding needed. Perhaps the next question should be; Do we want DOI continuing in this fashion until the project is "completed" (whatever that means) - or should they be binned off, we cut our losses and get an experienced management contractor in to get things done to an acceptable standard at an acceptable cost going forward? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: IIRC, they were voted an extra £750k last year which had to come out of the Heritage Rail budget. It's clear that Harmer and Baker simply regurgitate what the DOI spoon-feed them for public consumption, the DOI could have said that the job was going to cost 50p and the outcome would be the same; endless extra funding needed. Perhaps the next question should be; Do we want DOI continuing in this fashion until the project is "completed" (whatever that means) - or should they be binned off, we cut our losses and get an experienced management contractor in to get things done to an acceptable standard at an acceptable cost going forward? I said over a year ago now HQ should have called a complete halt to the contract and banged heads and got to the bottom of the issues and found a acceptable way forward. While I agree with your suggestion what credible company would step in to the mess bearing in mind the snagging is only starting . I'm sure someone would but at a massive premium which would mean tax payers picking upna even bigger tab. Nope , we are stuck with what we've got I'm sure and as for completion , its going on currently in my opinion till pre TT next year . Then goodness knows when after that with ongoing issues . Just look at Richmond Hill !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 I like that idea non-believer. After all they have to start work on the actual promenade yet (the walkway). I can imagine that taking years to complete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, NoTail said: I like that idea non-believer. After all they have to start work on the actual promenade yet (the walkway). I can imagine that taking years to complete. The walkway wasnt included in the original contract I'm sure as they were not having to touch it to carry out the works. That went well didn't it !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) Just in case memories are clouded ! Key points , time scale 2 years , 25 million budget and will be done inside budget . Quote from Harmer in those days. "We have been given a figure which we must stick to or come under. The timing of the scheme is also critical for us - we want to complete this as soon as possible." https://www.myprom.im/updates/latest-news/douglas-promenade-work-starting Edited May 6, 2021 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 16 hours ago, NoTail said: Is it legal to spend money twice on the project? Heads should roll. The horse trams should stop where they are and let's just finish the f***ing job. I'd agree with this. If you ask the general public I'd hazard a guess that 7 out of 10 just want the road finished and the walkway reinstated. Those 'temporary' traffic lights have been there for 12+ months now. The majority just aren't arsed about the horse trams stopping at Broadway or anywhere else. Mainly because in normal times very few local residents actually use them. The subject of what was approved by Tynwald, what has actually been delivered, and the difference between that financially should become a legal matter. Where has the money gone and who is responsible for that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebushy Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Just out of interest, the worlds longest bridge measures just over 102 miles in length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danyang–Kunshan_Grand_Bridge It took 4 years to build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipsqueak Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, littlebushy said: Just out of interest, the worlds longest bridge measures just over 102 miles in length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danyang–Kunshan_Grand_Bridge It took 4 years to build they have a very large workforce , we have a large workfarce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 38 minutes ago, littlebushy said: Just out of interest, the worlds longest bridge measures just over 102 miles in length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danyang–Kunshan_Grand_Bridge It took 4 years to build Yes, but....does it have a horse tram though ? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 1 hour ago, littlebushy said: Just out of interest, the worlds longest bridge measures just over 102 miles in length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danyang–Kunshan_Grand_Bridge It took 4 years to build But that didn't have traffic using it or businesses operating along it while it was being built 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 50 minutes ago, Apple said: Yes, but....does it have a horse tram though ? Watling Street would have made a fortune out of that project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsmeee Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Is the road finished at the summer land end of the prom through to the Empress? It’s no level and there’s a heck of a difference in level between the red concrete and the tarmac. I hope they’re not calling that complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 16 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Black has confirmed that the job is open chequebook. So there's one major issue that needs to be raised and questioned. He may not realise it but it's not within Black's gift to be able to say the project is an open chequebook - That's the role of Tynwald and Treasury. He was given a budget to work within and a set of parameters for what was expected. If he can't see that or for some reason doesn't understand that then he should be emptying his desk this afternoon with a P45 in the post. That's not even a complex issue. It should be clear as day. Why isn't that being questioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 The report is pretty damning ‘Delaying the project in such a way that a new vote will be required by Tynwald Members after the 2021 General Election is unacceptable. We believe that this deliberately obstructs the will of Tynwald from being carried out, adding further delay and undermining the supremacy of Tynwald Court. We are further concerned that splitting up the work into two phases hides the full budget of the overall project and prevents the public from being able to see transparently any overspend on the original projected total. Budget In oral evidence, Mr Black confirmed that the Scheme does not have a final budget and that the process of allocating money is ongoing.8‘’ deliberately obstructing the will of Tyneside doesn’t sound the way to make friends. DOI has the chance to respond obviously, but the open ended budget sounds like a recipe for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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