AlanShimmin Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Perhaps it's not just the concrete cracking up is Baker thinks it's not that bad. Yes it will probably last as couple of years if it's just left, but it will fail eventually and start breaking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I can guarantee with 100% certainty there will be rectification gang's working on the prom for the next twenty years! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, finlo said: I can guarantee with 100% certainty there will be rectification gang's working on the prom for the next twenty years! They'll probably spin it into some 21st Century version of a winter work scheme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, finlo said: I can guarantee with 100% certainty there will be rectification gang's working on the prom for the next twenty years! A good payday for the lowest bidding contractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, prism10 said: A good payday for the lowest bidding contractor. Regardless of what the winning contractor bids - who's paying for it - for the second occasion, as it wasn't right the first time? Manx taxpayers is the answer. And as to the penalty clauses applying to the first occasion, non-applicable/non-existent. A complete farce from start to the protracted and expensive finish. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Regardless of what the winning contractor bids - who's paying for it - for the second occasion, as it wasn't right the first time? Manx taxpayers is the answer. And as to the penalty clauses applying to the first occasion, non-applicable/non-existent. A complete farce from start to the protracted and expensive finish. While I agree with the fact is its the taxpayers who will have to pay I feel this is mostly because its the DOI who have been the main causes of issues. I think if they try and blame Auldyn it will open a can of worms and courts will be involved and truth will have to come out and they dont want that its clear ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Just now, Numbnuts said: While I agree with the fact is its the taxpayers who will have to pay I feel this is mostly because its the DOI who have been the main causes of issues. I think if they try and blame Auldyn it will open a can of worms and courts will be involved and truth will have to come out and they dont want that its clear ! Cue an expensive settlement with NDA... Which will conveniently cover the backs and arses of those in the DOI who are ultimately responsible. With the Manx taxpayers again picking up the tab? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Numbnuts said: While I agree with the fact is its the taxpayers who will have to pay I feel this is mostly because its the DOI who have been the main causes of issues. I think if they try and blame Auldyn it will open a can of worms and courts will be involved and truth will have to come out and they dont want that its clear ! DOI carry the can for this regardless of contractor participation. They are the department who commissioned this contract and who are responsible for the end result. If they had such grave concerns as 'Minister' Baker doth protest, then they've had chances to pull the plug on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub3 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 DOI management should be removed from this project, it is clear they are incapable of providing a structured schedule of work's and this has been the problem from the outset, if they had provided this schedule they would have been able to update on progress or lack of, instead they done their usual and hid or denied there were any problem's before it was too late. Harmer seen the writing on the wall with this project and jumped ship, Baker thought he would have a opportunity to shine by committing to have it completed by March this year without knowing and blissfully ignorant of what he was committing too and will probably see him ousted out of the HoK. Mr Black and his CS colleagues will no doubt carry on regardless with another Minister come November and carry on with, as stated by NB an open cheque book and without scrutiny. I believe that they will eventually admit on the day NB retires that they cannot carry out the work without the need for an off island contractor to complete the works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 13 hours ago, AlanShimmin said: The elephant in the room is the cracked concrete. DOI have been told by two separate sources, with expertise in this area and knowledge of the problems, that it will all have to come up and either be renewed or preferably replaced with tarmac. With no rubber encasement/insulation around the tram tracks it means that every time there is warm weather the concrete is going to crack again and again. The responsibility for this must surely be the designer. The DOI is not the designer. If the contractor has installed the concrete as per the design they are free of obligation, if they have not then the liability to put it right is with them. The challenge is establishing the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 14 hours ago, AlanShimmin said: The elephant in the room is the cracked concrete. DOI have been told by two separate sources, with expertise in this area and knowledge of the problems, that it will all have to come up and either be renewed or preferably replaced with tarmac. With no rubber encasement/insulation around the tram tracks it means that every time there is warm weather the concrete is going to crack again and again. It is not the main elephant, the cracks are in "decorative" concrete. The red concrete is a topping if you wish over the much stronger stuff below that is supporting the rails and which is heavily reinforced. This central corridor of rails will be there in another 100 years. THE real elephant in the room is the tarmac, founded on Stoney mountain and recycled hardcore. There is nothing to insulate the road surface from the movement of the ground below. The old prom was all concrete, for a very good reason, the tide comes in and out below the ground like the sea wall was not there in places. Hard to believe but true and every tide moves the ground below the road, at depth, but it causes a long term movement nearer the surface over time. I would be surprised if the tarmac is not having to be re laid withing 5 years in places where the worst tide movement of the groundwater exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: It is not the main elephant, the cracks are in "decorative" concrete. The red concrete is a topping if you wish over the much stronger stuff below that is supporting the rails and which is heavily reinforced. This central corridor of rails will be there in another 100 years. THE real elephant in the room is the tarmac, founded on Stoney mountain and recycled hardcore. There is nothing to insulate the road surface from the movement of the ground below. The old prom was all concrete, for a very good reason, the tide comes in and out below the ground like the sea wall was not there in places. Hard to believe but true and every tide moves the ground below the road, at depth, but it causes a long term movement nearer the surface over time. I would be surprised if the tarmac is not having to be re laid withing 5 years in places where the worst tide movement of the groundwater exists. The red concrete may be decorative but it is also the running surface for one of the busiest roads on the island. If that starts to fail then it will have to be replaced. I take your point about deep down under the road. I was surprised they didnt appear to find more evidence of this. Any idea which buildings it is that have sea water in their basements/cellars at high tide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AlanShimmin said: The red concrete may be decorative but it is also the running surface for one of the busiest roads on the island. If that starts to fail then it will have to be replaced. I take your point about deep down under the road. I was surprised they didnt appear to find more evidence of this. Any idea which buildings it is that have sea water in their basements/cellars at high tide? All the buildings along Loch Prom 100% have it*, it can go as far back as Strand Street along there. *Maybe not in their basements, most have been sealed but certainly outside their basement walls. The Villiers building, I was told but cant confirm, uses the sea in the ground below it to help with air con? eta. The red concrete has an easy fix but I understand its just face saving that is stopping this happening. Edited May 9, 2021 by Boris Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said: All the buildings along Loch Prom 100% have it*, it can go eta. The red concrete has an easy fix but I understand its just face saving that is stopping this happening. Genuine question , what would be the easy fix as I've wondered how they could fix it succesfully and aesthetically for along time. I dont get Bakers reported method of resin as apart from it wont match many of the cracks are very fine . Edited May 9, 2021 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: Genuine question , what would be the easy fix as I've wondered how they could fix it succesfully and aesthetically for along time. I dont get Bakers reported method of resin as apart from it wont match many of the cracks are very fine . I was told on good authority, plane off the top 40mm and then lay red tarmac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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