Promenade - Megathread

[doc.fixit]

Exactly

[quilp]

59 minutes ago, kevster said:

It's all part of the shared space experience and slowing traffic to the benefit of pedestrians and other non-car users

Which is a great progress, though I can't see a wheelchair sharing that space. 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

The space between the parking bays and the pink concrete looks a bit toight or are cars supposed to use it? 
 

Also, didn’t someone say these thingies are not allowed to be used anymore? Looks like a huge tripping hazard, installed at a section seemingly meant to act as a crossing. 

 

Second photo down looks like a Pink Floyd album cover

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

The space between the parking bays and the pink concrete looks a bit toight or are cars supposed to use it? 
 

 


 

I can only assume they won’t be allowing large 4x4 or van parking then because nobody will get past, I suppose alternatively they could block the pavement with the overhang.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

It's all part of the shared space experience and slowing traffic to the benefit of pedestrians and other non-car users

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not (I'm not sure there's any way of discussing the Prom except with heavy sarcasm) but of course this isn't what shared space is about at all.

Shared space is about lack of features not an excess of them.  The whole idea is that the uncertainty that a lack of markings and other features give make drivers and other users uncertain about who has priority and so everyone move cautiously and adapts to ever changing circumstances.  Road markings,  different road surfaces, different pavement surfaces, even arguably having pavements at all all supply information than can be misinterpreted. 

So the crayonista heaven that the Prom has been designed to be, with the general appearance of having been designed by a three-year-old with ADHD and a very large box of magic markers, is the exact opposite of how shared space works.

The other problem with shared space is that it only works below a certain volume of traffic.  This has less to do with speed (though that's part of it) than the fact that with a high volume of traffic, drivers just follow what the driver in front did, rather than interacting separately with those around them.  So the concept of shared space may not work on the Prom anyway.  An individual car is more likely to let a pedestrian through in the absence of formal crossings that a whole chain of them will.

The joke is that far from being a wonderful new idea that very highly paid traffic engineers have come up with, shared space is already operating all over the Island.  It's how roads work on practically every housing estate (where there are very few road markings).  It's how many of the semi-pedestrianised road in the other towns (Ramsey, Peel, Castletown, practically every road in Port St Mary) work.  If you look in the background of Bakers interview with Moulton you can even see it happening on the Prom as drivers and pedestrians give way to each other at an informal crossing.  Only the DoI could take something that works well and muck it up while thinking they are inventing it.

[Omobono]

8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not (I'm not sure there's any way of discussing the Prom except with heavy sarcasm) but of course this isn't what shared space is about at all.

Shared space is about lack of features not an excess of them.  The whole idea is that the uncertainty that a lack of markings and other features give make drivers and other users uncertain about who has priority and so everyone move cautiously and adapts to ever changing circumstances.  Road markings,  different road surfaces, different pavement surfaces, even arguably having pavements at all all supply information than can be misinterpreted. 

So the crayonista heaven that the Prom has been designed to be, with the general appearance of having been designed by a three-year-old with ADHD and a very large box of magic markers, is the exact opposite of how shared space works.

The other problem with shared space is that it only works below a certain volume of traffic.  This has less to do with speed (though that's part of it) than the fact that with a high volume of traffic, drivers just follow what the driver in front did, rather than interacting separately with those around them.  So the concept of shared space may not work on the Prom anyway.  An individual car is more likely to let a pedestrian through in the absence of formal crossings that a whole chain of them will.

The joke is that far from being a wonderful new idea that very highly paid traffic engineers have come up with, shared space is already operating all over the Island.  It's how roads work on practically every housing estate (where there are very few road markings).  It's how many of the semi-pedestrianised road in the other towns (Ramsey, Peel, Castletown, practically every road in Port St Mary) work.  If you look in the background of Bakers interview with Moulton you can even see it happening on the Prom as drivers and pedestrians give way to each other at an informal crossing.  Only the DoI could take something that works well and muck it up while thinking they are inventing it.

8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not (I'm not sure there's any way of discussing the Prom except with heavy sarcasm) but of course this isn't what shared space is about at all.

Shared space is about lack of features not an excess of them.  The whole idea is that the uncertainty that a lack of markings and other features give make drivers and other users uncertain about who has priority and so everyone move cautiously and adapts to ever changing circumstances.  Road markings,  different road surfaces, different pavement surfaces, even arguably having pavements at all all supply information than can be misinterpreted. 

So the crayonista heaven that the Prom has been designed to be, with the general appearance of having been designed by a three-year-old with ADHD and a very large box of magic markers, is the exact opposite of how shared space works.

The other problem with shared space is that it only works below a certain volume of traffic.  This has less to do with speed (though that's part of it) than the fact that with a high volume of traffic, drivers just follow what the driver in front did, rather than interacting separately with those around them.  So the concept of shared space may not work on the Prom anyway.  An individual car is more likely to let a pedestrian through in the absence of formal crossings that a whole chain of them will.

The joke is that far from being a wonderful new idea that very highly paid traffic engineers have come up with, shared space is already operating all over the Island.  It's how roads work on practically every housing estate (where there are very few road markings).  It's how many of the semi-pedestrianised road in the other towns (Ramsey, Peel, Castletown, practically every road in Port St Mary) work.  If you look in the background of Bakers interview with Moulton you can even see it happening on the Prom as drivers and pedestrians give way to each other at an informal crossing.  Only the DoI could take something that works well and muck it up while thinking they are inventing it.

 

[Omobono]

and  the other problem  the prom work has created  Bucks road is gridlocked  for most of the day , and on Quarterbridge and Peel road every day is like TT week , the whole of the Douglas  traffic flow network radically requires a major overhaul antiquated and outdated traffic lights , and that silly cycle crossing at the Quarterbridge  New Castletown road where one impatient cyclist who  cant be bothered to wait a moment for a break in the traffic  has the right to stop everything on the busiest  road on the Isle of Man  , bringing everything to a standstill , 

I dont think this is progress !

[Ghost Ship]

30 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Second photo down looks like a Pink Floyd album cover

🤣   What are those things?  They're far too psychedelic for even a Pink Floyd album cover.  If I hadn't been sitting down when I saw them I think I would have fallen over!  They look like tiny tank traps or Dragon's Teeth...   (Are they obstacles for the visually impaired?)

Honestly - what are they and what function are they meant to serve?  I've never seen anything like that in the UK.

I've been following this saga since it started and I don't understand how they've made such a pig's ear of the whole prom.  Although to be fair I only know what I've read on here and a couple of videos on Youtube, but it all sounds absolutely horrendous.  

What I particularly don't understand is that although certain aspects of the prom were a bit of an eyesore, it had a certain Victorian charm and surely could have been smartened up with a little imagination and not a lot of effort (or money)?

Instead of being smartened up (or "classed up" which is a phrase I heard recently) it appears to have been tarted down in the worst possible taste.

And l've learned a new (and no doubt very useful) term in "crayonista".  Does nobody who has any influence over these things understand that very often less is more?

[CallMeCurious]

7 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

And l've learned a new (and no doubt very useful) term in "crayonista".  Does nobody who has any influence over these things understand that very often less is more?

Unfourtunately, when every professional involved is on a % based fee, there is little incentive to cut out the grand designs. Lord only knows how businesses down there are surviving as an out of towner I avoid central Douglas at all costs. On the plus side, other towns have benefited from greater footfall.

As for the dragons tooth pattern, wait until the first person ~ be it a toddler, distracted, drunk or infirm person trips, ~ twists an ankle or, god forbid worse, ends up in the road on some blustery winters evening? Presumably, it's intended to prevent skaters, cyclists, wheel chair et al users using the pavement either side of the gap.

Any bets on how long before it'll quietly disappear?    

[emesde]

It's called "deterrent paving" and is used for areas where you don't want any pedestrians, cyclists, or users at all..

Perhaps they are going to put a ring of it around Douglas to act like a modern moat🤔

[doc.fixit]

It'll come loose or wear out soon enough! lol

[Happier diner]

9 hours ago, Omobono said:

 , and that silly cycle crossing at the Quarterbridge  New Castletown road where one impatient cyclist who  cant be bothered to wait a moment for a break in the traffic  has the right to stop everything on the busiest  road on the Isle of Man  , bringing everything to a standstill , 

I dont think this is progress !

Gotta be the dumbest words I have seen on here for years. What century are you living in. So the 3 lanes of traffic can't stop for 2 minutes while the family and kids have a safe crossing over a busy road. What would be the point in having a cycle track that just ended at a busy road (like before). It was a deathtrap. Bringing everything to a standstill.....for 2 mins......a few times a day

Why not set off a minute earlier just in case you get so terribly inconvenienced

[AlanShimmin]

The new Loch Prom tarmac that went down this week is pulling up already. Oops. 

They've got the zebra crossing by RBS/Lloyd's up again... what's that now third or fourth time that it's had to be lifted? 

[finlo]

12 minutes ago, AlanShimmin said:

The new Loch Prom tarmac that went down this week is pulling up already. Oops. 

They've got the zebra crossing by RBS/Lloyd's up again... what's that now third or fourth time that it's had to be lifted? 

Safe to say it won't ever be finished!

[Numbnuts]

15 minutes ago, AlanShimmin said:

The new Loch Prom tarmac that went down this week is pulling up already. Oops. 

They've got the zebra crossing by RBS/Lloyd's up again... what's that now third or fourth time that it's had to be lifted? 

There cant be traffic on it yet surely ?Tarmac that is on Loch prom. Very hot to be laying it when no real drop in temp to allow it to harden . Re the crossings are all at 100% fail at least once . Was looking at the one to the side of Sam Webbs as told that needs lifting etc. yep the sets have moved with very little traffic , site traffic only . Not good ! 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Numbnuts