Promenade - Megathread

[CallMeCurious]

A very good overview of the highway code and traffic law. Rule 144 @ 9:30

 

[AlanShimmin]

4 hours ago, kevster said:

Not quite. It’s only concerns were about level spaces 

Like Senna Road, Howard Street, Granville Street and Regent Street?

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, AlanShimmin said:

Like Senna Road, Howard Street, Granville Street and Regent Street?

Well to be fair, if you go along the Prom and surrounds, so little of is level with anything else on a metre by metre basis that the level spaces rules wouldn't apply to any of it.

[WTF]

11 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

A very good overview of the highway code and traffic law. Rule 144 @ 9:30

 

but is a 'shared space'   legally a 'road'   so does it apply. ?   

[Max Power]

13 hours ago, bonatti said:

That's obvious.

But do you think a roundel will be more efficient at moving large volumes of traffic than a roundabout?

And will it be safer? That will take time to judge i guess.

I think it will be, as I mentioned previously that when the lights have failed at Broadway or St Ninian's in the past, people just used care and common sense, there were next to no queues and no accidents. 

I'm really surprised that such a fuss is being made about this, and that people have become so conditioned to being told what to do that they are frightened of a simple road junction, where they have to use their own judgement. 

[Zarley]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

I'm really surprised that such a fuss is being made about this, and that people have become so conditioned to being told what to do that they are frightened of a simple road junction, where they have to use their own judgement. 

When my daughter was first driving, I told her she should always assume the other driver was going to do something daft and to drive accordingly. You always have to assume the other guy just might exercise poor judgement. 

And of course people are conditioned/accustomed to being told what to do while driving. Thats the whole purpose of the highway code, various roadway signs and markings on the roadway itself. 

When people are confronted with road markings that resemble no markings ever before encountered, (ffs a bullseye?) is it really any wonder it's causing confusion? 

To add insult to injury, you then have the Department of Idiocy saying "treat them as 'any other' roundabout"; meanwhile the constabulary comes out saying "treat the (highly marked junctions) as unmarked junctions". 

And all this before we even consider the abysmal state of the pedestrian crossings. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed. 

It's a shambles and an expensive one at that.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Zarley
Typo

[Max Power]

12 minutes ago, Zarley said:

When my daughter was first driving, I told her she should always assume the other driver was going to do something daft and to drive according. You always have to assume the other guy just might exercise poor judgement. 

And of course people are conditioned/accustomed to being told what to do while driving. Thats the whole purpose of the highway code, various roadway signs and markings on the roadway itself. 

When people are confronted with road markings that resemble no markings ever before encountered, (ffs a bullseye?) is it really any wonder it's causing confusion? 

To add insult to injury, you then have the Department of Idiocy saying "treat them as 'any other' roundabout"; meanwhile the constabulary comes out saying "treat the (highly marked bullseyes) as unmarked junctions". 

And all this before we even consider the abysmal state of the pedestrian crossings. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed. 

It's a shambles and an expensive one at that.

I believe there is a rule governing this kind of junction, give way to those on your right?   

[ellanvannin2010]

51 minutes ago, Max Power said:

 

I'm really surprised that such a fuss is being made about this, and that people have become so conditioned to being told what to do that they are frightened of a simple road junction, where they have to use their own judgement. 

I do  not think the fuss is about the use of the junction as such, it is because the department that designed it said what it is and how it is to be used and then the police decided that it is something else and should be used in a completely different manner. 

They both issued this information via different channels so you will have some that will know of neither, both or just one of these statements. 

 

[Zarley]

2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I believe there is a rule governing this kind of junction, give way to those on your right?   

That's the rule for roundabouts, but the constabulary claim the junctions aren't roundabouts. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[Max Power]

18 minutes ago, Zarley said:

That's the rule for roundabouts, but the constabulary claim the junctions aren't roundabouts. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

Yes, you're right. The rule is basically drive with care.

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/answers/who-has-priority-at-an-unmarked-crossroads

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Max Power said:

I think it will be, as I mentioned previously that when the lights have failed at Broadway or St Ninian's in the past, people just used care and common sense, there were next to no queues and no accidents. 

I'm really surprised that such a fuss is being made about this, and that people have become so conditioned to being told what to do that they are frightened of a simple road junction, where they have to use their own judgement. 

But traffic light failures are situations which are only very temporary and people know that they are.  This is all-day and all-year round, so as well as there simply being more time for accidents etc, road users will start to develop habits of how they use the area and will tend to stick to what they see the 'right' way to do things.  Which may be different from other peoples' 'right' ways and won't alter with circumstances.

The truth about shared space is that it only really works at low traffic volumes (I've seen 90 vehicles per hour) and where traffic is happy to be at walking pace.  That's fine for the numerous places around the Island it works already (without the DoI apparently noticing) but above that sort of level it breaks down.

[ManxTaxPayer]

This is the Isle of Man where we make it up as we go along, and like to be seen to be doing that. Isn't that the point? 

Edited September 4, 2021 by ManxTaxPayer

[prism10]

2 hours ago, Max Power said:

I believe there is a rule governing this kind of junction, give way to those on your right?   

They have been doing that in Britain since the Tories came into power in 2010!

[emesde]

Worth googleing the Holmes report on shared space. The most comprehensive and detailed account on this subject
Executive Summary
Shared Space described by users as:
“Lethally dangerous” (Pedestrian)
“Absolute nightmare that I avoid if I can.” (Driver)
“Shared space is a false promise with poor delivery” (Cyclist)
Key findings:
 People’s experiences of shared space schemes are overwhelmingly negative.
 Overzealous councils are risking public safety with fashionable ‘simplified’ 
street design. 
 Over a third of people actively avoid shared space schemes.
 63 per cent of people who have used shared space schemes rated their 
experience as poor.
 Significant under-reporting of accidents in shared space.
Key recommendations:
 Immediate moratorium on shared space schemes while impact assessments 
are conducted.
 Urgent need for accessibility audits of all shared space schemes and a central 
record of accident data including “courtesy crossings”, which must be defined 
and monitored. 
 Department for Transport must update their guidance so that Local Authorities 
better understand their responsibilities under the Equalities Act. 
Shared space schemes remove regulations and features such as kerbs, road 
surface markings, traffic signs and controlled crossings. The number of shared 
space schemes is increasing, with many local authorities planning new schemes, 
despite the inherent difficulties. Just since this survey closed, new schemes have 
been announced in the Isle of Man, Kirkintulloch and Buntingford.
This survey asked people with experience of shared space for feedback on using 
these schemes. The response was extraordinarily negative. This survey clearly 
shows just how misguided a planning approach that aims to “improve pedestrian 
movement and comfort” and “enable all users to share space” is when users actually
report ‘anxiety’, ‘fear’ and in over a third of cases a refusal to use the space at all.

[Dave Hedgehog]

So after somebody pointed out to the myprom team of Facebook that the traffic lights by Quids Inn were needless as the road was more than wide enough did they?

a. Remove the lights

Or

b. Move the fence to make the road narrower