Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I had to drive through Antwerp recently, returning to Zeebrugge the same day, a return trip which should have taken a maximum of four hours. The city centre was in turmoil due to a big tramway and road project. When we got to our destination on the other side of the city, we were told that it has been a nightmare, with no alternative route. Our trip turned into eleven hours, we missed the return ferry and had to wait another day. There were areas fenced off with very little happening, seemingly and there were loads of retail businesses and hotels along the main drag which must have been suffering for months, maybe years? I wonder if they were getting compensation, or were they looking forward to the boost the new project would bring them? The promenade disruption is nothing compared to something like this, what we are talking about is basically people who can't park their car outside the door and are unwilling to use the alternatives provided in most cases. A bit of perspective and understanding is needed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 It's less about 60,000 local unqualified civil engineers and more about keeping what's going on under scrutiny. That scrutiny needs to include the grounds for the proposal, the then ongoing works and the finished project as well. Unfortunately, that scrutiny doesn't seem to exist much in the ranks of our politicos. Which is why we end up with FUBAR after FUBAR, followed by inquiry after inquiry, followed by handwringing and promises that "lessons will be learned". Already the DOI have dismissed (to date, anyway) some of the very reasons that were trotted out for the instigation of the whole project. That needs questions to be answered to start with. How much more of the project is predicated on such theories? And if so, could the budget be cut accordingly? Otherwise, all the allotted money "has to be spent" (quote P. Gawne) and we end up with all sorts of Fancy Dan expenditure in the name of burning the set budget. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's less about 60,000 local unqualified civil engineers and more about keeping what's going on under scrutiny. That scrutiny needs to include the grounds for the proposal, the then ongoing works and the finished project as well. Unfortunately, that scrutiny doesn't seem to exist much in the ranks of our politicos. Which is why we end up with FUBAR after FUBAR, followed by inquiry after inquiry, followed by handwringing and promises that "lessons will be learned". Already the DOI have dismissed (to date, anyway) some of the very reasons that were trotted out for the instigation of the whole project. That needs questions to be answered to start with. How much more of the project is predicated on such theories? And if so, could the budget be cut accordingly? Otherwise, all the allotted money "has to be spent" (quote P. Gawne) and we end up with all sorts of Fancy Dan expenditure in the name of burning the set budget. But the "allotted" money doesn't include any street furniture, DBC sent out a begging letter last year to cover that shortfall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I walk the prom nearly every day. We were told that it was in dire straits and any day a hole would open up big enough to swallow a bus. So far all I have seen is what looks like a very solid foundation. The quick scim done a few years ago seems like it was perfectly acceptable. Of course a super, high tech, glossy highway fit for the next 100 years will be lovely to have, only if we can afford it though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 And only if we are capable of carrying it out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 45 minutes ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said: Are your posts being sponsored by the DOI at all? I have to justify the £120k salary and pension somehow Willy, I'm struggling to fill my days! Just offering a different perspective, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as is being made out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Max Power said: I have to justify the £120k salary and pension somehow Willy, I'm struggling to fill my days! Just offering a different perspective, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as is being made out. Is it going to be anywhere near as expensive as is being made out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, NoTail said: Is it going to be anywhere near as expensive as is being made out? I predict that it will be finished before time and under budget, how's that for PR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said: Do you know that for a fact? I drive the prom at least 4 times a day and I’ve spoken to a lot of the shop owners on Marathon Terrace and the Castlemona Arcade. I don’t believe they are making it up just to be awkward. I'm sure they aren't making it up Willy, a lot of businesses on the island are marginal at best anyway. It wouldn't take much for them to notice the draught. I do sympathise, just as I would with any business affected by major road works. When Peel Road was resurfaced, a lot of businesses there suffered too. I just think they need to get on with it and get it done as quickly as possible, what else can be done? I drive the prom a similar amount as you and am disabled with poor mobility, I can still get parked and get where I need to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, NoTail said: We were told that it was in dire straits and any day a hole would open up big enough to swallow a bus. We were indeed. Many moons ago when the great Prom scheme was first mooted, our splendid government told us that one of the principal reasons for the considerable cost was the necessity to fill in the vast voids beneath the carriageway that had been detected by ground penetrating radar. I’m pretty certain no such void filling has been undertaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Uhtred said: We were indeed. Many moons ago when the great Prom scheme was first mooted, our splendid government told us that one of the principal reasons for the considerable cost was the necessity to fill in the vast voids beneath the carriageway that had been detected by ground penetrating radar. I’m pretty certain no such void filling has been undertaken. Around the old Villiers site and Paparazzi area I saw some huge deep holes being dealt with, not sure if they had been dug out or were collapsed holes but the road had some huge dips around here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Max Power said: Around the old Villiers site and Paparazzi area I saw some huge deep holes being dealt with, not sure if they had been dug out or were collapsed holes but the road had some huge dips around here? Ok - cheers...but the hugest dip in the whole shebang is Harmer. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said: Lots else can be done to be honest. This is a £25M project (amazingly) so even if they pay out £500K to traders it’s 2% of project costs and significantly less than the supposed bonus the contractors are on to finish on time. The horse tram lines alone have added to the delays and for what? They’ve never made a penny for the DOI or the Corporation. Maybe they will, I thought they had gone off to discuss the possibility? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Uhtred said: We were indeed. Many moons ago when the great Prom scheme was first mooted, our splendid government told us that one of the principal reasons for the considerable cost was the necessity to fill in the vast voids beneath the carriageway that had been detected by ground penetrating radar. I’m pretty certain no such void filling has been undertaken. It hasn't. And DOI Project Manager Keith Podmore has publicly stated that no such voids have been found either by survey or works to date. Sorry to keep banging on about this, but if the project was budgeted to deal with such major grief and that grief now turns out to be non-existent then any end of project back slapping about coming in under budget is hollow (no pun intended). It needs to be looked at and adjusted accordingly. Before we end up with gold-plated lamp posts in order to use the funds up. They're doing a 12" deep skim when all, including Tynwald, were told that it required metres deep reconstruction. What was it that Phil Gawne told Tynwald in the belief that the mics were switched off..? "The only thing the public need to do is stop complaining and pay for it"..? Sums it up succinctly. Edited August 4, 2019 by Non-Believer Extra bit 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Seems to me the voids that need filling are between MHK's ears.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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