Gladys Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I don't deny those things. I am not missing the point. I am agreeing with the coroner. It may have contributed to the accident. However we will never know for sure. It not the same as the prom. They are crossings. Poor maybe. You are missing the point. Are they all crossings, even those without Belisha Beacons and charcoal and grey stripes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gladys said: Are they all crossings, even those without Belisha Beacons and charcoal and grey stripes? It depends on the definition of crossing I guess. Imo They are not obligatory so a car does not have to stop by law if put your foot on the crossing. However its a fine line as pedestrian has right of way on the road at all times. Crossing or no crossing. I think the concept is that they indicate a place where it is suggested you might cross and where a vehicle might feel inclined to be expecting you to cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramseyboi Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I think the concept is that they indicate a place where it is suggested you might cross and where a vehicle might feel inclined to be expecting you to cross. Which is clearly a stupid concept on a main road. There is far too much going on down there for it to work safely. As a driver you need eyes everywhere “crossing” every few hundred yards or less, narrow road, a stupid bit where the trams cross the traffic, unmarked junctions that aren’t roundabouts but have inexplicably been made to look like they might be. Woukd have been much better to upgrade the road to a nice normal wider strip of new tarmac with a number of clear signalled crossings and a narrow pavement and parking on the land side, and then spend all the money on an upgraded walkway and gardens etc on the sea side. Road would have been done relatively quickly with minimal disruption and the they could dock about to their hearts content on the fancy bits once the road was back to serving it’s actual purpose of being a safe and efficient way for people to get around. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said: Which is clearly a stupid concept on a main road. There is far too much going on down there for it to work safely. As a driver you need eyes everywhere “crossing” every few hundred yards or less, narrow road, a stupid bit where the trams cross the traffic, unmarked junctions that aren’t roundabouts but have inexplicably been made to look like they might be. Woukd have been much better to upgrade the road to a nice normal wider strip of new tarmac with a number of clear signalled crossings and a narrow pavement and parking on the land side, and then spend all the money on an upgraded walkway and gardens etc on the sea side. Road would have been done relatively quickly with minimal disruption and the they could dock about to their hearts content on the fancy bits once the road was back to serving it’s actual purpose of being a safe and efficient way for people to get around. I don't disagree. I don't particularly like the concept. However I think I would have made it 20mph speed limit with enforcement. I would have combined it with plans for an alternate route for traffic as a seafront is not the best for an arterial route. It ends up being neither thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Ramseyboi said: Which is clearly a stupid concept on a main road. There is far too much going on down there for it to work safely. As a driver you need eyes everywhere “crossing” every few hundred yards or less, narrow road, a stupid bit where the trams cross the traffic, unmarked junctions that aren’t roundabouts but have inexplicably been made to look like they might be. Woukd have been much better to upgrade the road to a nice normal wider strip of new tarmac with a number of clear signalled crossings and a narrow pavement and parking on the land side, and then spend all the money on an upgraded walkway and gardens etc on the sea side. Road would have been done relatively quickly with minimal disruption and the they could dock about to their hearts content on the fancy bits once the road was back to serving it’s actual purpose of being a safe and efficient way for people to get around. Very well said. Would have been much cheaper as well, both doing it and maintaining it. As others have said, Every time it has to be dug up, that smorgasbord of surfaces is going to be an expensive PITA to put right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, Zarley said: Very well said. Would have been much cheaper as well, both doing it and maintaining it. As others have said, Every time it has to be dug up, that smorgasbord of surfaces is going to be an expensive PITA to put right. Don't you just know that any repairs will be done in plain black Tarmac. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Something that is very difficult to discuss/speculate about the St Johns incident is the proportion of blame that could be placed on the victim? We just don't want to add to the grief? It is possible that the driver and the DoI designer are still suffering stress and have not been 'cleared' by the Coroners comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Happier diner said: But Gladys, there are no crossings on the prom that bear any resemblance to the one on the heritage trail. That's the only poi t I am making. Apart from the ones that are laid with blocks/cobbles, have a drop kerb, but at the same time aren't crossings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: I would have combined it with plans for an alternate route for traffic as a seafront is not the best for an arterial route. It ends up being neither thing. There's ample room for the road and Promenade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, James Blonde said: There's ample room for the road and Promenade Quite, and that has been the case for well over a century. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Happier diner said: I don't disagree. I don't particularly like the concept. However I think I would have made it 20mph speed limit with enforcement. I would have combined it with plans for an alternate route for traffic as a seafront is not the best for an arterial route. It ends up being neither thing. Not a lot of alternatives to seafront without reversing half the one way system in Douglas. Unless the plan is to divert all ferry traffic via Old Castletown Road and/or Peel Road to QB. Except for the 4 weeks of the year when it gets closed for motorsport. This is why we need the cruise ship terminal so we can use it to bridge across the bay from STB to Port Jack, add a marina, some housing and lagoon then pedestrianise the promenade for horse trams and active travel. Maybe the Rasmey Marina group would be interested? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 If we were building Douglas today, would we build a promenade? I doubt. If we just now building it, would we build better arterial routes and thoroughfares? One would hope so! An opportunity missed? The Prom is certainly a facility for residents but no longer for multi ks of tourists, does it have to be the way it has always been? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Kopek said: If we were building Douglas today, would we build a promenade? I doubt. If we just now building it, would we build better arterial routes and thoroughfares? One would hope so! An opportunity missed? The Prom is certainly a facility for residents but no longer for multi ks of tourists, does it have to be the way it has always been? https://culturevannin.im/exploremore/places/historic-douglas-promenade-401664/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said: https://culturevannin.im/exploremore/places/historic-douglas-promenade-401664/ the promenade remains the main arterial route North and South connecting the port , Main Shopping centre , and commercial district , this appears to have been completely forgotten by the DOI who appear to be living in a fools paradise with a bottomless pit of money ,and the belief they they are totally unaccountable to anyone , time for a major clear out of the overpaid dross and all the bloodsucking clueless consultants , together with a complete review of the effectiveness and value for money of this department 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyone Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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