wingnut Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Comparing apples with oranges? This is more like a small apple with an orange grove! As for the M6 link not disturbing traffic, it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, wingnut said: Comparing apples with oranges? This is more like a small apple with an orange grove! As for the M6 link not disturbing traffic, it did. I'm NOT saying the prom out-turn cost is acceptable or value. I am saying it has very little in common with the Bay Gateway (or incorrectly called by you the Heysham bypass ). Different challenges and a different scale of things. Its not a suitable benchmark in any way Bay Gateway Your maths is crap. Double. Its a bit more than double Very few services/utilities to contend with Land drainage ad interceptors Big environmental issues and planning work Significant road building but on greenfield Big roundabouts and laybys Prom Significant utility work Needed to stay open Footpaths and crossing Block paving 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 29 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I'm NOT saying the prom out-turn cost is acceptable or value. I am saying it has very little in common with the Bay Gateway (or incorrectly called by you the Heysham bypass ). Different challenges and a different scale of things. Its not a suitable benchmark in any way Bay Gateway Your maths is crap. Double. Its a bit more than double Very few services/utilities to contend with Land drainage ad interceptors Big environmental issues and planning work Significant road building but on greenfield Big roundabouts and laybys Prom Significant utility work Needed to stay open Footpaths and crossing Block paving Actually it’s the Lancaster Western by-pass. It had a long gestation. The concept was published in the document "Road Plan for Lancashire", in 1948. The idea was revived in 1962 in the Lancashire Development Plan. The first phase, initially known as the Lancaster and Morecambe bypass, opened in 1994, leaving the bridge over the Lune and the actual motorway link unbuilt. Planning permission for this was granted in 2008, with the DoT accepting the "best and final bid offer" and confirming a funding contribution of £111m in 2011, final approval was given in 2013. Final cost was £123.9 million. That motorway junction has always been problematic. Originally there wasn’t going to be a Lancaster north exit, just Lancaster South at Forton ( Hampson Green ) and Carnforth ( which was the northern terminus of the M6 for 10 years ) which joined the M6 to the A6 via the shortest Motorway in the UK, the A601(M). The original M6 design had an exit for works and motorway maintenance traffic and a yard and compound. The connection to Caton Road was an afterthought. As for your list. A6, canal, river Lune, plus main natural gas transmission pipe to contend with Huge problems with roundabout design and Post construction usage, roundabouts remodelled, and speed limits lowered due to being ignored/driven straight across. Dangerous traffic light junction at Lancaster & Morecambe College, originally planned to be a flyover. Omitted due to cost. The section from Westgate to the College needed to be kept open as did Morecambe Road 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, John Wright said: Actually it’s the Lancaster Western by-pass. It had a long gestation. The concept was published in the document "Road Plan for Lancashire", in 1948. The idea was revived in 1962 in the Lancashire Development Plan. The first phase, initially known as the Lancaster and Morecambe bypass, opened in 1994, leaving the bridge over the Lune and the actual motorway link unbuilt. Planning permission for this was granted in 2008, with the DoT accepting the "best and final bid offer" and confirming a funding contribution of £111m in 2011, final approval was given in 2013. Final cost was £123.9 million. That motorway junction has always been problematic. Originally there wasn’t going to be a Lancaster north exit, just Lancaster South at Forton ( Hampson Green ) and Carnforth ( which was the northern terminus of the M6 for 10 years ) which joined the M6 to the A6 via the shortest Motorway in the UK, the A601(M). The original M6 design had an exit for works and motorway maintenance traffic and a yard and compound. The connection to Caton Road was an afterthought. As for your list. A6, canal, river Lune, plus main natural gas transmission pipe to contend with Huge problems with roundabout design and Post construction usage, roundabouts remodelled, and speed limits lowered due to being ignored/driven straight across. Dangerous traffic light junction at Lancaster & Morecambe College, originally planned to be a flyover. Omitted due to cost. The section from Westgate to the College needed to be kept open as did Morecambe Road That's interesting. I think we all agree it has little in common with the prom apart from tarmac. Which is a small cost in the overall scheme of things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: I'm NOT saying the prom out-turn cost is acceptable or value. I am saying it has very little in common with the Bay Gateway (or incorrectly called by you the Heysham bypass ). Different challenges and a different scale of things. Its not a suitable benchmark in any way Bay Gateway Your maths is crap. Double. Its a bit more than double Very few services/utilities to contend with Land drainage ad interceptors Big environmental issues and planning work Significant road building but on greenfield Big roundabouts and laybys Prom Significant utility work Needed to stay open Footpaths and crossing Block paving Oh pardon me Happy Dinner, here’s me thinking the ‘Bay Gateway’ was a bypass designed to skirt the towns of Morcambe and Lancaster. Some may call it the Lancaster Western by-pass, whatever, it looks like bypass to me! Educate me with the correct maths please. You aren’t anything to do with the Promenade debacle by any chance? Oh, I love the bullet points by the way, they look all kind of important and authoritative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 34 minutes ago, wingnut said: Oh pardon me Happy Dinner, here’s me thinking the ‘Bay Gateway’ was a bypass designed to skirt the towns of Morcambe and Lancaster. Some may call it the Lancaster Western by-pass, whatever, it looks like bypass to me! Educate me with the correct maths please. You aren’t anything to do with the Promenade debacle by any chance? Oh, I love the bullet points by the way, they look all kind of important and authoritative. The Lancaster By-Pass was the 12 mile stretch of the M6 opened in 1960 from Hampson Green roundabout south of Galgate to the A601(M) just north of Carnforth. It was the second bit of the M6 to open, after the Preston By-Pass ( which was the first stretch of motorway to open in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, John Wright said: The Lancaster By-Pass was the 12 mile stretch of the M6 opened in 1960 from Hampson Green roundabout south of Galgate to the A601(M) just north of Carnforth. It was the second bit of the M6 to open, after the Preston By-Pass ( which was the first stretch of motorway to open in the UK. And nothing to do with the topic of conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, wingnut said: And nothing to do with the topic of conversation? Topics veer off and circle back. One of the beauties of forums. But it was you that brought up the Bay Gateway. A road that took 70 years to conceive and build, started in 1985 and finished in 2016. And had huge design and build faults, still unresolved, as a comparator. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, wingnut said: Oh, I love the bullet points by the way, they look all kind of important and authoritative. I'm glad about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 31 minutes ago, wingnut said: And nothing to do with the topic of conversation? But very informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesde Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 It really isn't good is it. I use the prom every day and for 3 years it has looked like a new road under construction. It now looks like an old road under repair. Full of holes, cones, water, pavements not completed etc etc. We were told a week or two ago that we had reached a milestone.... I think that should have read millstone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 As an aside I remember my dad driving his big Rover on the new M6 about 1965 at around 100mph. In those days there was no speed limit, or so he thought. We were pulled over by the police because we were towing a trailer, that meant you were speed restricted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I'm glad about that. 28 minutes ago, John Wright said: Topics veer off and circle back. One of the beauties of forums. But it was you that brought up the Bay Gateway. A road that took 70 years to conceive and build, started in 1985 and finished in 2016. And had huge design and build faults, still unresolved, as a comparator. 30 minutes ago, John Wright said: Topics veer off and circle back. One of the beauties of forums. But it was you that brought up the Bay Gateway. A road that took 70 years to conceive and build, started in 1985 and finished in 2016. And had huge design and build faults, still unresolved, as a comparator. Sorry Mr. Pendant but I wasn’t talking about any of what you divert to, I was talking about the shameful waste of money and shoddy workmanship applied to the prom refurbishment as I’m sure you well know. I was also pointing out how the recent bypass over the water by scale and comparison clearly shames the Department of Incompetence’s ongoing abortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 28 minutes ago, wingnut said: Sorry Mr. Pendant but I wasn’t talking about any of what you divert to, I was talking about the shameful waste of money and shoddy workmanship applied to the prom refurbishment as I’m sure you well know. I was also pointing out how the recent bypass over the water by scale and comparison clearly shames the Department of Incompetence’s ongoing abortion? Oh dear. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 31 minutes ago, wingnut said: Sorry Mr. Pendant but I wasn’t talking about any of what you divert to, I was talking about the shameful waste of money and shoddy workmanship applied to the prom refurbishment as I’m sure you well know. I was also pointing out how the recent bypass over the water by scale and comparison clearly shames the Department of Incompetence’s ongoing abortion? And I was pointing out how Bay Gateway suffered from many similar issues and progressed glacially ( contrary to your assertion ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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