english zloty Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 hour ago, WTF said: the gauge is the same 3 feet on the MER , horse trams and steam railway , only the snaefell mountain railway is a different gauge at 3 feet 6 inches. the issue is the wheel profile and the clearances required for the flanges , as i understand it they have used the larger track clearances for the MER wheel sets on the tramway and the tram wheels have too much clearance to work correctly. Yes that’s my point. The additional clearance is what is assisting in getting around the radii.take that away and there will be even more jarring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 I'm no engineer but if I understand it correctly the horse trams were designed to go in a straight line, and for over 100 years that's what they have done. It has now been decided that they must be forced to go round a corner. Plain daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 39 minutes ago, english zloty said: Yes that’s my point. The additional clearance is what is assisting in getting around the radii.take that away and there will be even more jarring less sharp curves would have helped , it could be the wheel back to backs that are the issue , tram rails effectively have a full length check rail built due to the rail profile , with too much clearance and an incorrect back to back the check rail can't work as it should and the wheel flange will ride up the frog , it's all basic stuff if you are in the railway game, everything using the rails should have the same wheel profile , the interesting thing which may need looking at is can an mer tram wheel profile and back to back fit both lots of rails correctly? and if it can the horse trams need new wheel profiles, then the question is does the new depot accomodate the a new wheel profile ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, NoTail said: I'm no engineer but if I understand it correctly the horse trams were designed to go in a straight line, and for over 100 years that's what they have done. It has now been decided that they must be forced to go round a corner. Plain daft. no, there were/are some fairly tight curves leading into the sheds , the issue is the new rail profile and clearances not suiting the existing horse tram wheel sets. running on plain rail the clearances are not so critical, things can just rattle along, but when it comes to point work though check rails and frogs etc the clearances matter. Edited May 19, 2022 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 there appears to be a massive gap in the female part of the rail and giving a lot of play between the flanges of the wheel and the new rail , when it comes to the curve it appears to be easy for the tram to derail because of the pressure at the two axles working against the curve , the gap in the old rail was quite narrow , the wheels fitted snugly and did not bind against the curve as it appears to be happening now and possibly causing a derailment the old rails were so smooth a single person could actually pull a tram without any real effort , it was like comedy sketch on the prom yesterday ,during the trial , I would say back to the drawing board , it doesn't look like an easy fix ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Lots of talk of flanges. Love it. However, zero talk on the derailment from any of the local news outlets. Surely this is a significant point of public interest (and with any luck apoplectic outrage). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 16 hours ago, Numbnuts said: Cant argue with that. As always its working fine but because we have degrees and VIP in DOI lets reinvent it .! My guess is its the bogies will be changed as Longworth has already mentioned it , see quote from him earlier I posted. I thought the horse trams were a permanently fixed to the chassis, ie, there aren't any bogies on them to change?? Or have I got that wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Am I correct in thinking that our sacred, world heritage trams which have always run at a loss are going to be redesigned to fit new tracks they should never have run on. Thus making them new style loss making trams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 And here was me thinking that it wasn't possible to reinvent the wheel.... how wrong can you be? 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebushy Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 16 hours ago, Numbnuts said: Cant argue with that. As always its working fine but because we have degrees and VIP in DOI lets reinvent it .! My guess is its the bogies will be changed as Longworth has already mentioned it , see quote from him earlier I posted. Do you reckon Longworth was a fan of Dick and Dom back in the day for his knowledge base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 47 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: I thought the horse trams were a permanently fixed to the chassis, ie, there aren't any bogies on them to change?? Or have I got that wrong? no, you are correct, i mentioned this quite a few pages back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, WTF said: no, you are correct, i mentioned this quite a few pages back. They are literally the lowest tech wheeled vehicle you could possibly create. Its just a frame wirh some wheels. No power, steering or suspension. Yet still they have completely screwed it up. Do you know if they're fixed axle too? Edited May 19, 2022 by The Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: They are literally the lowest tech wheeled vehicle you could possibly create. Its just a frame wirh some wheels. No power, steering or suspension. Yet still they have completely screwed it up. Do you know if they're fixed axle too? i don't know about that, possibly enough flex in the chassis to not need any compensation or springing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: I thought the horse trams were a permanently fixed to the chassis, ie, there aren't any bogies on them to change?? Or have I got that wrong? No , your right , just me not being precise. The wheels sets will have to be changed I believe as does Longworth if his correspondence is to believed . Sorry for confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) Posted on Manx Electric Railway Society's Facebook page Testing of Horse Tramway Begins “One of the Douglas prom horse trams became derailed under ‘controlled conditions’ while undergoing testing. This was being done to ensure the rail is installed correctly on a curved section of the track, and was being observed by the railway inspector who is currently on-island. The Department of Infrastructure said the picture was taken ‘shortly after one wheel became derailed under controlled conditions as the gauge was too tight in this particular spot’. This will enable the contractor to adjust the gauge and correct the issue as part of the normal testing process,’ a spokesperson added.” Edited May 19, 2022 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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