Promenade - Megathread

[kevster]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

For the life of me I don't see why zebra or any other pedestrian crossings aren't made idiot proof. Why, as a designer, would you leave anything to chance?

Idiots evolve quicker than idiot proof designs

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, kevster said:

Idiots evolve quicker than idiot proof designs

 

[WTF]

17 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

sadly we have the fools doing the designing.

[Dirty Buggane]

Oh Boy, and don't we have the market for fools well and truly cornered.

[Happier diner]

19 hours ago, emesde said:

Couldn't agree more. Crossings have evolved over generations to offer a safe way for pedestrians to cross roads . They need to be very obvious to both pedestrians and vehicle drivers/riders. 

Then along comes someone who thinks they should become works of art and blend in till they are unrecognisable as safe crossing  places. This is really playing with peoples lives. 

I think that's a point well made, but there is more to it than that.

You can't have rolls royce crossings everywhere can you otherwise the roads would be just one crossing after another? So the designers of  roads and crossings should design and place crossings that, in number and design, are placed in proportion to the risk.

For example, near the Wessex there are two, all bells and whistles, zebra crossings very close to each other. That is right IMO as its right by a school, its a busy road and its a busy crossing. However there are no more crossings on the whole length of Alexander Drive. So if you were crossing by the Woodie for example. There is nothing at all. That too is a busy crossing point. Same at the end of Selbourne. The Spanish have a sensible approach. They pretty much put zebras on every junction and at regular intervals. Very few are all singing all dancing (Carlos Fandango) ones like the ones by the Wessex, but they make it clear to drivers that the pedestrian has the priority.

So I would rather have a cheap and cheerful crossing rather than none at all and I don't want our roads littered with thousands of rolls royce versions

[WTF]

26 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

 

For example, near the Wessex there are two, all bells and whistles, zebra crossings very close to each other. That is right IMO as its right by a school, its a busy road and its a busy crossing. However there are no more crossings on the whole length of Alexander Drive. So if you were crossing by the Woodie for example. There is nothing at all. That too is a busy crossing point. Same at the end of Selbourne. The Spanish have a sensible approach. They pretty much put zebras on every junction and at regular intervals. Very few are all singing all dancing (Carlos Fandango) ones like the ones by the Wessex, but they make it clear to drivers that the pedestrian has the priority.

So I would rather have a cheap and cheerful crossing rather than none at all and I don't want our roads littered with thousands of rolls royce versions

you don't need a cheap and cheerful crossing 50 feet from an all singing and dancing one though , a single all singing and dancing one by each side street on loch prom similar to how it was before the proms makeunder was more than enough..

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, WTF said:

you don't need a cheap and cheerful crossing 50 feet from an all singing and dancing one though , a single all singing and dancing one by each side street on loch prom similar to how it was before the proms makeunder was more than enough..

True

[emesde]

Crossings don't need to be Rolls Royse but they do need to be identifiable for both drivers and pedestrians. There are some in really dangerous positions so close to the roundels. Yet at the other end of the prom there isn't one near the Summer Hill junction, making it very difficult to cross for people that want to get to bus stops etc to get busses into town. The Government make all the good noises about active travel etc and then make it especially difficult to cross to get onto the walkway. The government make all the right noises and then do all the wrong things. 

[emesde]

I hope you are right and agree that traffic flow has been good. It will be interesting to see what the flow is like once the horse trams are back. 

My concern is that following the road safety strategy written in 2019.it seems to be a document that had been put in a drawer and forgotten.  I live on the prom and walk and or drive along it every day and see how badly some people deal with the changes. Most people seem to use it as a roundabout expecting the person to their right to give way. There seem to be a lot of people that are happy to drive into the junctions well in excess of 20 mph and rely on the defensive driving of others to avoid vehicle contact. So far that defensive driving by some has avoided any serious accidents. I personally don't think that is a the safest way to deal with a fairy basic T junction. 

Time will tell😉

[0bserver]

42 minutes ago, emesde said:

I hope you are right and agree that traffic flow has been good. It will be interesting to see what the flow is like once the horse trams are back. 

Traffic flow has only been 'OK' because of the lack of horse trams. 

They should be banned during road closures on the TT course. Purely for logistical reasons of the 999 services needing easy travel along the Prom and also on an animal welfare basis. 

OK if you want to make a case for them during the rest of the year but not on peak TT road closure time. 

[Omobono]

all the pedestrian crossings on the promenade should have been the same ,  with the beacons and zig zag lines ,   pelicans a waste of time and money , and drivers do actually give way to pedestrians on a normal crossing , 

no wonder people are confused , and the cost of the promenade has risen out of control .

[WTF]

2 minutes ago, Omobono said:

all the pedestrian crossings on the promenade should have been the same ,  with the beacons and zig zag lines ,   pelicans a waste of time and money , and drivers do actually give way to pedestrians on a normal crossing , 

no wonder people are confused , and the cost of the promenade has risen out of control .

the beauty of pelican crossings is there is  much less white paint on the road for bikes to slide on in the wet.

[emesde]

14 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

OK if you want to make a case for them during the rest of the year but not on peak TT road closure time. 

Is there much of a case for having horse trams at all trundling down the  centre of a main road? 

It certainly isn't used as transport for getting anywhere. It is purely a nostalgia ride for visitors,and should have been situated off the road. Possibly along the walkway. The cost of pandering to a few has in itself been out of all proportion to any value and has been a costly and logistical nightmare as we are now seeing. 

I

[Happier diner]

37 minutes ago, emesde said:

Is there much of a case for having horse trams at all trundling down the  centre of a main road? 

It certainly isn't used as transport for getting anywhere. It is purely a nostalgia ride for visitors,and should have been situated off the road. Possibly along the walkway. The cost of pandering to a few has in itself been out of all proportion to any value and has been a costly and logistical nightmare as we are now seeing. 

I

I once used one as transport back from the Terminus because I was a bit tiddly. I fell asleep and missed my stop and ended up at the sea terminal🤪

[0bserver]

48 minutes ago, emesde said:

Is there much of a case for having horse trams at all trundling down the  centre of a main road? 

It certainly isn't used as transport for getting anywhere. It is purely a nostalgia ride for visitors,and should have been situated off the road. Possibly along the walkway. The cost of pandering to a few has in itself been out of all proportion to any value and has been a costly and logistical nightmare as we are now seeing. 

I

Totally agree. I would like to see them scrapped. 

But I think we're too far in to the sunk cost fallacy for DOI to scrap them. So the only real option would be to limit them.