0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Minister Thomas will be busy hosting circle jerk for a small group of anoraks at midday. They even have the cheek to make the 'event' free after the millions that have been wasted. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/horse-tram-event-today-557281 It would have been appreciated if he could supply the GMP with a factual account of where our millions were channelled off to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 hours ago, 0bserver said: Minister Thomas will be busy hosting circle jerk for a small group of anoraks at midday. They even have the cheek to make the 'event' free after the millions that have been wasted. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/horse-tram-event-today-557281 It would have been appreciated if he could supply the GMP with a factual account of where our millions were channelled off to. It's a money loser anyway so what's a few free trips going to do... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 34 minutes ago, Passing Time said: It's a money loser anyway so what's a few free trips going to do... Sunk cost fallacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 43 minutes ago, Passing Time said: It's a money loser anyway so what's a few free trips going to do... Before I have a dig around, does anyone know how much it loses annually (pre-prom shambles) and the portion of the overall prom costs that were attributable? I've got a feeling it was about £200k & £5m respectively. From my taxes, I want to know how much this has cost me already and how much it is likely to cost annually. As I've said already, prior to the prom redevelopment, I was fairly indifferent to the horse trams. Now I hate them passionately. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Before I have a dig around, does anyone know how much it loses annually (pre-prom shambles) and the portion of the overall prom costs that were attributable? I've got a feeling it was about £200k & £5m respectively. From my taxes, I want to know how much this has cost me already and how much it is likely to cost annually. As I've said already, prior to the prom redevelopment, I was fairly indifferent to the horse trams. Now I hate them passionately. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/horse-trams-made-ps500k-loss-during-last-season-220917 https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/horse-trams-make-a-loss-during-tt-228541 https://gef.im/2018/10/03/opinion-horse-trams-a-terminus-for-tradition/ Essentially just under £750k per annum on 'operating losses' The prom work is about £7.5m attributed to them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Phantom said: As I've said already, prior to the prom redevelopment, I was fairly indifferent to the horse trams. Now I hate them passionately. certain vets absolutely love the horse trams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) What still amazes me (and this applies to the other 'heritage' railways too) is that DOI Public Transport Division have no idea how much money they expect to lose this summer. A FOI was submitted earlier in the year and DOI essentially said they have no business plan or loss forecast to predict how much taxpayers cash they will burn through. In the current economic climate where many of the GMP are struggling to find enough money to feed their families, that is unforgiveable. ETA when I say £7.5m for the Prom, that includes the new tram sheds and the cost of buying the stable blocks from DBC. Edited July 29, 2022 by 0bserver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, 0bserver said: https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/horse-trams-made-ps500k-loss-during-last-season-220917 https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/politics/horse-trams-make-a-loss-during-tt-228541 https://gef.im/2018/10/03/opinion-horse-trams-a-terminus-for-tradition/ Essentially just under £750k per annum on 'operating losses' The prom work is about £7.5m attributed to them. The most recent economically active population numbers for the IOM I can see are from 2016 and 42,000. I know that everyone pays different amounts of tax, but lets just assume we're all equal in this instance. (Very approximate) per person tax paid for this would be: Cost of trams on the prom redevelopment = £178. Annual costs =£18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, The Phantom said: The most recent economically active population numbers for the IOM I can see are from 2016 and 42,000. I know that everyone pays different amounts of tax, but lets just assume we're all equal in this instance. (Very approximate) per person tax paid for this would be: Cost of trams on the prom redevelopment = £178. Annual costs =£18. Yet they have the audacity to run them for free today for the amusement of some anoraks. Total lack of business acumen by IOM Government - they should be rinsing these train spotters for every single penny, such is the cost of the trains and trams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 What I'd rather they did is to hand over the horse trams/Steam Railway/MER to privateers. Give them some money to run them for the first year with the proviso that they are on their own with no further public money going into it. Sink or swim time boys and girls 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 29 minutes ago, 0bserver said: Yet they have the audacity to run them for free today for the amusement of some anoraks. Total lack of business acumen by IOM Government - they should be rinsing these train spotters for every single penny, such is the cost of the trains and trams. How can they lack something they have never had... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Passing Time said: How can they lack something they have never had... I have a lack of winning lotto tickets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Just now, 0bserver said: I have a lack of winning lotto tickets. Me too - hundreds of them... I've turned picking the wrong numbers into an art form 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Are they actually running properly now? I thought this was just a "circle jerk for anoraks" (thanks for the quote @Observer ) Report on the NPM suggests this is a launch? https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/horse-trams-return-to-douglas-promenade/ If it is, fingers crossed for a spectacular derailment imminently. Also, Chris Thomas thinks "the Victorians would be proud". I'm 100% certain they would be absolutely baffled by the fact we now have drones, hoverboards, electric cars, e-scooters, electric bikes etc etc and we are still dragging trams with fucking horses!!! He seems pretty confident in extending the tracks in winter 2023. I'm hoping there will be an uprising by this point. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 20 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Are they actually running properly now? I thought this was just a "circle jerk for anoraks" (thanks for the quote @Observer ) Report on the NPM suggests this is a launch? https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/horse-trams-return-to-douglas-promenade/ If it is, fingers crossed for a spectacular derailment imminently. Also, Chris Thomas thinks "the Victorians would be proud". I'm 100% certain they would be absolutely baffled by the fact we now have drones, hoverboards, electric cars, e-scooters, electric bikes etc etc and we are still dragging trams with fucking horses!!! He seems pretty confident in extending the tracks in winter 2023. I'm hoping there will be an uprising by this point. Sorry, I've just picked myself up off the floor after reading that Chris Thomas quote on the NPM website! The Victorians would be pissing themselves at us not being able to do a relatively simple bit of civil engineering (it was massively complicated because DOI made it so). If there is any indication of work taking place on the Promenade then I hope local businesses will group together to sue the DOI. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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