Happier diner Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 2 hours ago, 0bserver said: It was all perfectly avoidable if they had done a full geophysics survey of the promenade. 90% of the utilities would have been located with a good degree of accuracy. Instead that carpetbagger Harmer and the Clowns at the Sea Terminal charged in like a bull in a chinashop and the rest is now history. Geophysics? X rays specs more like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, Happier diner said: Geophysics? X rays specs more like? How do you think other places manage similar work without completely fucking it up 100% of the time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 0bserver said: How do you think other places manage similar work without completely fucking it up 100% of the time? How many other Civil Engineering entities are/were headed by a Weights and Measures civil servant, a Waste Incineration civil servant, a number of "engineers" with no civil engineering qualifications (as per FOI Request last year) and an individual with a dubious record in bus management and at best, a hobby interest in rail matters? How many other places would let such a motley crew loose, with only loose and limited political oversight, on a major taxpayer-funded civil engineering project? Answers to the Public Accounts Committee please. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 0bserver said: How do you think other places manage similar work without completely fucking it up 100% of the time? Bu knowing what they are doing...but not geophysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Bu knowing what they are doing...but not geophysics It isn’t persuasive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 7 hours ago, manxfisherman said: He posts on the twitter these days. He's a little erratic. Erratic? You mean a vaguely lucid conspiracy nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Just a reminder. Matt Bawden is a real person who posted under their own name. Outing Happier Diner, if they actually were Matt, would be against the rules. A serious infringement. likewise sock puppet clause says you can’t claim one poster is the same person as another poster, using two accounts. Bandits has paid the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 DOI was, and still is, run by people who aren’t trained in anything remotely useful for running huge multi million pound budgets . Yes PAC should be looking at it, but get someone in who really understands commercials and engineering to do it an recommend a way forward. Before they spend more of our money unwisely…. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Gladys said: It isn’t persuasive. 8 hours ago, Non-Believer said: How many other Civil Engineering entities are/were headed by a Weights and Measures civil servant, a Waste Incineration civil servant, a number of "engineers" with no civil engineering qualifications (as per FOI Request last year) and an individual with a dubious record in bus management and at best, a hobby interest in rail matters? How many other places would let such a motley crew loose, with only loose and limited political oversight, on a major taxpayer-funded civil engineering project? Answers to the Public Accounts Committee please. 10 hours ago, 0bserver said: How do you think other places manage similar work without completely fucking it up 100% of the time? Good morning. I fear I am being misunderstood despite stressing over and over what I am saying. So, one again I'll say Yes the prom is a very poor project in all respects. The fact that it ran into such a mess IMO is due to the following factors. 1. Goverment fiddling and poor scope. No one really seemed to know what they wanted. 2. The project rendering and award process and the way it was handled by the DOI 3. The poor quality of actual work done and the cost escalation. 4. The crazy attempt to do all the underground services alongside the construction. All the stakeholders in this project hold the blame to some extent Government DoI Project management consultant QS Engineering consultant Contractor My conclusion therefore is that, yes, DOI have the ultimate accountability and they must take the hit. They did. Black went. Others are surely tarnished. But I believe they were to some extent let down by poor performance in all the other aspects above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Happier diner said: My conclusion therefore is that, yes, DOI have the ultimate accountability and they must take the hit. They did. Black went. Others are surely tarnished. But I believe they were to some extent let down by poor performance in all the other aspects above. Black leaving is not taking a hit. A whole load of others should have “left” too at the very minimum. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Newsdesk said: Black leaving is not taking a hit. A whole load of others should have “left” too at the very minimum. You could well be right. I do not know the details of who did what. I only try to explain how it works and give my view of how I feel the project was managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, Happier diner said: You could well be right. I do not know the details of who did what. I only try to explain how it works and give my view of how I feel the project was mis-managed. Fixed that for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Happier diner said: Good morning. I fear I am being misunderstood despite stressing over and over what I am saying. So, one again I'll say Yes the prom is a very poor project in all respects. The fact that it ran into such a mess IMO is due to the following factors. 1. Goverment fiddling and poor scope. No one really seemed to know what they wanted. 2. The project rendering and award process and the way it was handled by the DOI 3. The poor quality of actual work done and the cost escalation. 4. The crazy attempt to do all the underground services alongside the construction. All the stakeholders in this project hold the blame to some extent Government DoI Project management consultant QS Engineering consultant Contractor My conclusion therefore is that, yes, DOI have the ultimate accountability and they must take the hit. They did. Black went. Others are surely tarnished. But I believe they were to some extent let down by poor performance in all the other aspects above. Thanks Tim 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: Good morning. I fear I am being misunderstood despite stressing over and over what I am saying. So, one again I'll say Yes the prom is a very poor project in all respects. The fact that it ran into such a mess IMO is due to the following factors. 1. Goverment fiddling and poor scope. No one really seemed to know what they wanted. 2. The project rendering and award process and the way it was handled by the DOI 3. The poor quality of actual work done and the cost escalation. 4. The crazy attempt to do all the underground services alongside the construction. All the stakeholders in this project hold the blame to some extent Government DoI Project management consultant QS Engineering consultant Contractor My conclusion therefore is that, yes, DOI have the ultimate accountability and they must take the hit. They did. Black went. Others are surely tarnished. But I believe they were to some extent let down by poor performance in all the other aspects above. My original point was simply that you can't tell if the on-the-ground contractors such as Auldyn were doing a good job or not, because the whole process above was so screwed up. I suspect they weren't, because when you get endless contradictory and badly specified plans, you're not going to go out of your way to do anything but the bare minimum, but we can't really tell. The company whose role has been underexamined is Burroughs (formerly Burroughs Stewart Associates) who: are acting as the Rail Designer and scheme Project Manager for the Douglas Promenade regeneration project, which will refurbish almost the entirety of the 2.5km Victorian seafront in Douglas, Isle of Man. The scheme includes upgrade of the highway, footpath, and tram corridor requiring extensive coordination and collaboration with the Isle of Man Department of Infrastructure (DOI) and other stakeholders. The scope of the rail design is to replace the existing tram rails with a like for like system, for the heritage horse tram to run on. There is potential for future use of the Manx Heritage Electric Railway along the Promenade as well. The rail design comprises the design of the rail geometry, vertical levels, construction details for the tram corridor, as well as the rail drainage. (Of course that 'potential future use' was completely unauthorised) BSA had been the go-to guys for the DoI and its predecessors for many years with such triumphs as the Airport runway, radar and control tower; IRIS; and indeed practically anything remotely involving engineering that happened on the Island. You might be amazed that a small company would have such a width of specialised experience, but apparently they can do everything. If you have the right mates you are omniscient. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 "With a 'like for like' system" ? And that's what we now have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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