Promenade - Megathread

[Ham_N_Eggs]

30 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

My original point was simply that you can't tell if the on-the-ground contractors such as Auldyn were doing a good job or not, because the whole process above was so screwed up.  I suspect they weren't, because when you get endless contradictory and badly specified plans, you're not going to go out of your way to do anything but the bare minimum, but we can't really tell.

The company whose role has been underexamined is Burroughs (formerly Burroughs Stewart Associates) who:

 are acting as the Rail Designer and scheme Project Manager for the Douglas Promenade regeneration project, which will refurbish almost the entirety of the 2.5km Victorian seafront in Douglas, Isle of Man. The scheme includes upgrade of the highway, footpath, and tram corridor requiring extensive coordination and collaboration with the Isle of Man Department of Infrastructure (DOI) and other stakeholders.

The scope of the rail design is to replace the existing tram rails with a like for like system, for the heritage horse tram to run on. There is potential for future use of the Manx Heritage Electric Railway along the Promenade as well. The rail design comprises the design of the rail geometry, vertical levels, construction details for the tram corridor, as well as the rail drainage.

(Of course that 'potential future use' was completely unauthorised)

BSA had been the go-to guys for the DoI and its predecessors for many years with such triumphs as the Airport runway, radar and control tower; IRIS; and indeed practically anything remotely involving engineering that happened on the Island.  You might be amazed that a small company would have such a width of specialised experience, but apparently they can do everything.  If you have the right mates you are omniscient.

Are they masons by any chance?

[ellanvannin2010]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

 

The company whose role has been underexamined is Burroughs (formerly Burroughs Stewart Associates) who:

 are acting as the Rail Designer and scheme Project Manager for the Douglas Promenade regeneration project, which will refurbish almost the entirety of the 2.5km Victorian seafront in Douglas, Isle of Man. The scheme includes upgrade of the highway, footpath, and tram corridor requiring extensive coordination and collaboration with the Isle of Man Department of Infrastructure (DOI) and other stakeholders.

The scope of the rail design is to replace the existing tram rails with a like for like system, for the heritage horse tram to run on. There is potential for future use of the Manx Heritage Electric Railway along the Promenade as well. The rail design comprises the design of the rail geometry, vertical levels, construction details for the tram corridor, as well as the rail drainage.

(Of course that 'potential future use' was completely unauthorised)

 

A member of BSA  did go and collect an award for the horse tramway.

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/unlikely-award-of-year-goes-to-horse-tramway-232171

Edited September 10, 2022 by ellanvannin2010

[Numbnuts]

55 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

My original point was simply that you can't tell if the on-the-ground contractors such as Auldyn were doing a good job or not, because the whole process above was so screwed up.  I suspect they weren't, because when you get endless contradictory and badly specified plans, you're not going to go out of your way to do anything but the bare minimum, but we can't really tell.

The company whose role has been underexamined is Burroughs (formerly Burroughs Stewart Associates) who:

 are acting as the Rail Designer and scheme Project Manager for the Douglas Promenade regeneration project, which will refurbish almost the entirety of the 2.5km Victorian seafront in Douglas, Isle of Man. The scheme includes upgrade of the highway, footpath, and tram corridor requiring extensive coordination and collaboration with the Isle of Man Department of Infrastructure (DOI) and other stakeholders.

The scope of the rail design is to replace the existing tram rails with a like for like system, for the heritage horse tram to run on. There is potential for future use of the Manx Heritage Electric Railway along the Promenade as well. The rail design comprises the design of the rail geometry, vertical levels, construction details for the tram corridor, as well as the rail drainage.

(Of course that 'potential future use' was completely unauthorised)

BSA had been the go-to guys for the DoI and its predecessors for many years with such triumphs as the Airport runway, radar and control tower; IRIS; and indeed practically anything remotely involving engineering that happened on the Island.  You might be amazed that a small company would have such a width of specialised experience, but apparently they can do everything.  If you have the right mates you are omniscient.

Experience would say they actually are not very good at anything they do. God knows why Government keep them as a favourite go to. All those contracts that you list that they were involved in have all had big failures and problems and all with a link to engineering spec.

[0bserver]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

My original point was simply that you can't tell if the on-the-ground contractors such as Auldyn were doing a good job or not, because the whole process above was so screwed up.  I suspect they weren't, because when you get endless contradictory and badly specified plans, you're not going to go out of your way to do anything but the bare minimum, but we can't really tell.

The company whose role has been underexamined is Burroughs (formerly Burroughs Stewart Associates) who:

 are acting as the Rail Designer and scheme Project Manager for the Douglas Promenade regeneration project, which will refurbish almost the entirety of the 2.5km Victorian seafront in Douglas, Isle of Man. The scheme includes upgrade of the highway, footpath, and tram corridor requiring extensive coordination and collaboration with the Isle of Man Department of Infrastructure (DOI) and other stakeholders.

The scope of the rail design is to replace the existing tram rails with a like for like system, for the heritage horse tram to run on. There is potential for future use of the Manx Heritage Electric Railway along the Promenade as well. The rail design comprises the design of the rail geometry, vertical levels, construction details for the tram corridor, as well as the rail drainage.

(Of course that 'potential future use' was completely unauthorised)

BSA had been the go-to guys for the DoI and its predecessors for many years with such triumphs as the Airport runway, radar and control tower; IRIS; and indeed practically anything remotely involving engineering that happened on the Island.  You might be amazed that a small company would have such a width of specialised experience, but apparently they can do everything.  If you have the right mates you are omniscient.

DOI issued a contract for a bag of dog shit. 

Auldyn have delivered them their requested bag of dog shit, DOI are just quibbling about the colour and consistency of said dog shit. 

We're all left wondering why we've paid for it 

[Omobono]

2 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Are they masons by any chance?

No chance !  and neither are  they delivering ! time an investigation was carried out into all the work they have done for government  and how successful , the projects have been ,and weather they have been value for money  or on time ,  you will probably get a shock , so wheres all the Wanna bee  back bench MHK's who are looking to  improve our lot and for once provide us with value for money !

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, 0bserver said:

DOI issued a contract for a bag of dog shit. 

Auldyn have delivered them their requested bag of dog shit, DOI are just quibbling about the colour and consistency of said dog shit. 

We're all left wondering why we've paid for it 

Ha Ha. Its a point. Perhaps if you said the DOI asked for a nice pile of firm dog shit. BSA changed that into a spec for a slightly runny pile and then Auldyn gave them a steaming runny pile of diarrhoea I'd be right with you. 

[Non-Believer]

In which case, DOI (for tis they who commissioned the job on behalf of the taxpaying Manx public) should be stamping their feet (in the runny diarrhoea if necessary) and wanting to know where the nice, firm pile of shit is.

Because that's what was requested and has been paid for.

And if they don't then they are complicit and as incompetent as the rest - but we know that already.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Non-Believer
extra bit

[KERED]

15 hours ago, 0bserver said:

DOI issued a contract for a bag of dog shit. 

Auldyn have delivered them their requested bag of dog shit, DOI are just quibbling about the colour and consistency of said dog shit. 

 

I miss that crusty white stuff that we used to see.

[joebean]

The whole episode is a failure of project management. It started right at the beginning when DoI managed to secure funding without knowing what the completed project would look like. That demonstrates a failing in Treasury. Once they had the money, DoI continued to mismanage the project at every stage and have contractors continually facing changes to the project, dealing with a lack of proper forward planning and not being properly managed. 
DoI were far too excited with the  pictures of their original designs, as were the politicians and they launched into the scheme without any idea of the scope of the work or the strategy for the tramway. If you wanted to find a demonstration of bad capital project management the Promenade scheme could be held up as an example anywhere. I wonder how “lessons will be learned” when so many clueless people are still present. Thank God Nick Black has now found his niche in driving buses, or whatever. It was never as a Chief Executive of a large Department. Bullshit might baffle brains, but in this instance it succeeded in baffling the equally brainless and the fellow bullshitters. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by joebean
TYPO

[Two-lane]

1 hour ago, joebean said:

The whole episode is a failure of project management. It started right at the beginning when DoI managed to secure funding without knowing what the completed project would look like.

Who gave them the money, without knowing what the completed project would look like?

[Numbnuts]

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

Who gave them the money, without knowing what the completed project would look like?

Cannan was the Treasury minister. Surprisingly quiet on the subject now ! Joebean is right with his summary and despite what a certain poster trying to protect the DOI they started the contract before having detailed plans in place hence the overspend and momental cockups . My view is DOI should never be allowed anywhere near any capital projects (over 1 million) for the future of this and next Tynwald. 

Only to be changed after a clearout of most of existing management in DOI and most of the current favourite contractors and consultants .  

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Numbnuts

[Non-Believer]

[Zarley]

3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

That graphic could apply to just about any government project. Should be the go-to meme when discussing anything they get their grubby little crayonista mitts on. 

[Non-Believer]

11 minutes ago, Zarley said:

That graphic could apply to just about any government project. Should be the go-to meme when discussing anything they get their grubby little crayonista mitts on. 

That's a screenshot from the Beamans Report into the DOI itself, released in June last year. There was lots more too, some of which was outed by Trevor Cowin. All mid-Promenade project...

[Zarley]

1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

That's a screenshot from the Beamans Report into the DOI itself, released in June last year. There was lots more too, some of which was outed by Trevor Cowin. All mid-Promenade project...

I suspected that's where it came from, but to be fair, it really could apply to far too many government projects.