Numbnuts Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) No plans drawn up for services. No interaction with Fire services re , fire hydrants. Assumed an amount and after fire services got wind it's nowhere near enough . Placement of said Hydrants not planned properly . Unable to install services due to lack of pre planning and unable then to get to areas needed due to cross over and depths etc. apparently Prom walk way in the region of Loch Prom has now probably to be lifted to enable pipe installations . Plans not signed off or in some cases not produced . Daily winging it as to procedures hence the piecemeal work areas . Hold ups mainly due to no preplanning and totally lacking skill set in DOI . Incredible really and yet it's just on going . I see the rails laid after Palace are now having extra works and more fixings to them on all the fixing points. Needs to stop. The whole job...closed down for at least 4 weeks. Yes I know but the issues have to be addressed before going any further . CM needs to get a grip as clearly staff in DOI are completely incapable of handling the job. Other issues expected are levels are incorrect in many areas and it's felt parking in some area will not be possible as the increases in gaps between rails are so increased it won't be possible to park ,allow for traffic and Trams ..it's a mess ! Cracking in concrete allegedly Specification problem and failure in plans to address temp and expansion joints and Rail and concrete expansion and contraction and failure to protect the concrete from drying out to quickly which it did. Fault lies with Government apparently .will they admit to it !! I'm sure they won't . Oh as above inter departmental lack of interaction big problem . Not really a Labour issue as they would be only standing around if more were there Edited November 12, 2019 by Numbnuts 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Oh and plans next summer to dig up fronts on hotel side of Prom ,which was intended next summer , threw out by government the other week and has been the cause of much discussion since has still not been resolved so expect a further delay to finish to nearer 3 years and counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Gosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) If those reports by Numbnuts are correct, and I can confirm at least some bits agree with my sources, what should CM do? If it was me, I would pull DOI off the job and ensure heads rolled. I would bring in a big, professional contractor like Costains, Kier or similar to take charge of finishing the job, probably ripping up the tram tracks and abandoning any future trams on the prom, this seems to be the biggest and most expensive aspect of the project. Edited November 12, 2019 by NoTail 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Never happen. THINK of the dent to our national pride as an independent nation. Egg on faces. Etc etc. No, we'll just decide to keep throwing money at it until it's finished on whatever fashion. Then we'll hold an inquiry which will find that no-one was to blame, that there's nothing to see, lessons will be learned and we can all move on to the next profligate fuck-up. Promotions and lavish retirements will be duly awarded. The Isle of Man....where you can. Edited November 13, 2019 by Non-Believer Typo 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timetraveler Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Serious question. I notice they do different works on different parts of the promenade road, so you end up with half of it black tarmac and the other half looks a different colour and texture, and you get darker bits around the sewer things. Do they ever plan to make sure the road surface is a uniform colour and texture so, you know, it doesn't look like a complete mess made during amateur hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, timetraveler said: Serious question. I notice they do different works on different parts of the promenade road, so you end up with half of it black tarmac and the other half looks a different colour and texture, and you get darker bits around the sewer things. Do they ever plan to make sure the road surface is a uniform colour and texture so, you know, it doesn't look like a complete mess made during amateur hour? You'll find that some of the new tarmac areas will be getting dug up again I'm sure as it's just temporary to allow movement over it. Yes I know !! It will be recycled back through the system though . Just keep a eye in the areas and you'll see this happening . The cracked red concrete also will have to come up as it will crack worse as the frost and water gets into the cracks.. I'm sure the recent areas around the bottom of Broadway will be dug up when they finally lay the finished surface Edited November 18, 2019 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 It's a winter work scheme extended permanently ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I think there is some really good points in the above posts. If all the intelligence is even 80% accurate, we are in a real mess here. the very bravest thing to do here is to hit the reset button and start again, accepting it is going to cost us the same again. A major civil engineering company could likely have it surveyed, redesigned, started and finished within 12-14 months. Labour could be imported and the accommodation met by the crippled hotels, paid for by IOMG. It would be headlines for a few weeks, but would soon be forgotten. What would be remembered is that it was the time the Govt actually got a grip. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Everything that Numbnuts has posted above seems to agree with things I've been told. NoTail seems to agree as well. It needs some brave action, but sadly I don't think COMIN or the back benchers have the balls to do it. 1. Call and immediate halt to all work on the Promenade. 2. Appoint a UK contractor before the end of January 2020 with a set timescale working from one end to the other 3. The horse trams get binned off indefinitely until the scheme is fully complete - I don't care what anyone else says, they were an unnecessary complication to the work this summer and caused a loss of parking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 On reading through the above and from what I've heard a major issue seems to be a QS related one,. I'm guessing that service is being performed by DOI in-house bods since I can't find any mention of who the QS contractor is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Also, when did the walkway become part of the scheme? We were all told it wasn't being done when the plans were first announced, now they seem to have a 6ft trench dug along it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Numbnuts is correct. The Minister instructed work to start before the design work was finished for the Broadway and Sefton areas and before anything other than speculative discussion with other service providers. I was told the prom will take 3.5 years at least. However it 'has' to be finished before the election. Which became 'substantially' finished which became phase 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Reading back through this thread from the start of the promenade works and there seem to be rather a lot of predictive contributions that have duly come to pass as reality. Fact is that neither DOI or their contractors have any experience in jobs of this scale. Throw in what appears to be a total lack of planning and the eternal horsetram issue and it was only ever going to be a recipe for FUBAR. Pride needs to be swallowed for the sake of the taxpayer and the Island. Put the whole job, including design, out to experienced off-Island contract. Return the DOI to what they should be doing which is basic maintenance, repairing roads, keeping rivers clear and cutting trees and hedges back. And never, ever again listen to civil servants with ideas well beyond their station. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Reading back through this thread from the start of the promenade works and there seem to be rather a lot of predictive contributions that have duly come to pass as reality. Fact is that neither DOI or their contractors have any experience in jobs of this scale. Throw in what appears to be a total lack of planning and the eternal horsetram issue and it was only ever going to be a recipe for FUBAR. Pride needs to be swallowed for the sake of the taxpayer and the Island. Put the whole job, including design, out to experienced off-Island contract. Return the DOI to what they should be doing which is basic maintenance, repairing roads, keeping rivers clear and cutting trees and hedges back. And never, ever again listen to civil servants with ideas well beyond their station. I think the Contractors have. They just need instruction and plans to function. And they have neither. That was clear from day one when two subbies randomly started breaking out concrete Islands only to go to the north end of the prom and work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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