Promenade - Megathread

[CallMeCurious]

4 minutes ago, NoTail said:

This made me laugh 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/many-defects-still-outstanding-on-douglas-promenade/

The whole fffing thing is a defect.

As for cost? How much?

So over 900 is politispeak for nudging a 1,000.  Works were approximately 2400m so a defect every 2.5m to 3m. 

£27,530,000 or £11,470 per metre.  And we are left with a weed patch/dog toilet, half a horse tram line, fewer parking spaces and still have the walkway and seawall to even begin.

[0bserver]

21 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

 

£27,530,000 or £11,470 per metre.  And we are left with a weed patch/dog toilet, half a horse tram line, fewer parking spaces and still have the walkway and seawall to even begin.

The removal of the horse trams from Loch Prom is almost worth £20m alone! 

It's better now it's not smeared in horse shit from April - October. 

The grass verge is actually ok too now someone seems to have adopted it and actually mowed it. Put some picnic benches on it.

[CallMeCurious]

4 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

The removal of the horse trams from Loch Prom is almost worth £20m alone! 

It's better now it's not smeared in horse shit from April - October. 

The grass verge is actually ok too now someone seems to have adopted it and actually mowed it. Put some picnic benches on it.

More like £25-30m if current projects are anyhtign to go by.

Pity it's not on the other side in front of the businesses who, having endured so much over the last few years because of it, might benefit and contribute to its upkeep. Much like the North Quay, outdoor seating in the summer/TT.  

[Catrisk]

12 hours ago, 0bserver said:

The grass verge is actually ok too now someone seems to have adopted it and actually mowed it. Put some picnic benches on it.

Picnic benches would be a great idea. Let the coffee shops and restraints adopt that stretch and use it fir customers otherwise it’s literally a useless patch of grass. 

[Ativa]

25 minutes ago, Catrisk said:

Picnic benches would be a great idea. Let the coffee shops and restraints adopt that stretch and use it fir customers otherwise it’s literally a useless patch of grass. 

Why would you want to sit and have a picnic next to a main road looking at the back of a load of parked vehicles and with people backing in belching diesel fumes at you?

With the choice of there, the Vila gardens and the sunken gardens why would anyone want to sit on that bit of scabby grass?

 

[Roxanne]

18 minutes ago, Ativa said:

Why would you want to sit and have a picnic next to a main road looking at the back of a load of parked vehicles and with people backing in belching diesel fumes at you?

With the choice of there, the Vila gardens and the sunken gardens why would anyone want to sit on that bit of scabby grass?

 

It's not scabby grass,  It''s a wildflower meadow - remember?

[monasqueen]

6 hours ago, Roxanne said:

It's not scabby grass,  It''s a wildflower meadow - remember?

At least it's not got holes in it like most of the tarmac, and it'll look a lot prettier when it flowers. ☺️ 

[Two-lane]

A quote from somewhere-or-other:

"'Many of these remain outstanding,' he said. 'A major point of discussion is the red concrete, which is treated as a defect. ‘Discussions are ongoing.’"

So what, theoretically, would be the cost of using a mechanical digger to rip up the pink concrete and lay some tarmac in its place?

[CallMeCurious]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

A quote from somewhere-or-other:

"'Many of these remain outstanding,' he said. 'A major point of discussion is the red concrete, which is treated as a defect. ‘Discussions are ongoing.’"

So what, theoretically, would be the cost of using a mechanical digger to rip up the pink concrete and lay some tarmac in its place?

Considering that you'd have to protect the rails, their fixings and alignment as you break out the concrete, all manner of diversions and temporary works to keep the road open or one way (again). then you've got to protect the rails while you tarmac them and the same issues with differential expansion between steel and tarmac and trying to stop adhesion between them.

Add in the noise, the dust and the length of time it would take plus a few lengths of damaged rails being replaced after encounters with a JCB pecker. 

Best guess would be a 12 months at £20m turning into 18 months and £40m. 

And who pays for it? The client who requested it, the designer who specified it, the engineer who detailed it, the concrete supplier, the main contractor and all the subcontractors who prepared the ground and laid the concrete? And if it is realted to how the rails were installed (i.e welded and not fishplates or whatever) then the pool of suspects expands again.

Most in that scenario will fight it tooth and nail becsue they'll have to get their insurers involved and more than likely cut their losses and wind up the business.

Classic vanity project with no thought to the long term viability or running costs.

[SuperHans]

2 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Classic vanity project with no thought to the long term viability or running costs.

It’s far surpassed a vanity project by now though. Even in the case of the Emperors New Clothes it looks SHIT by any conventional benchmark you can think of. I bet there’s paved and tarmaced areas in Mariupol that still look like they’ve had a better job done to them. 

[kevster]

8 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

And who pays for it? The client who requested it, the designer who specified it

Should be the designer who didn't specify a flexible container around the bottom and sides of the rail as is common on all other tracks laid in a roadway.

As for welded rails - most railways use welded rails these days - they are pre-stressed to allow for expansion/contraction

[CallMeCurious]

1 minute ago, kevster said:

Should be the designer who didn't specify a flexible container around the bottom and sides of the rail as is common on all other tracks laid in a roadway.

As for welded rails - most railways use welded rails these days - they are pre-stressed to allow for expansion/contraction

And what if the concrete proves to be not as specified, or not poured and cured at the right temperature. The design may not be entirely to blame if it was ignored or inferior or unapproved changes were made. This is like having a multi vehicle pile up and all of the insurers fighting over who is laible for what and how much.

Sadly a lot of this could have been prevented by the simple expedient of building a test section while they did all of the investigation works. By the time they were ready to go ahead with it, they should have spotted that the rails needed the container you mention. £10-20k to avoid a problem a 1,000 times more expensive

 

 

 

[CallMeCurious]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:41 PM, Asthehills said:

Nothing to do with DOI though.  That’s another DBC cock up

Lightning strike surge because no-one thought to fit surge protection. Shocking

[Ativa]

Spotted today, down by the Village.

The first markings by a manhole cover to suggest the road will be dug up soon.

How bad are they going to let the various bits of block work that are breaking up before they admit defeat and get the cones and workers out again?

[0bserver]

The issue with the cracked/cracking concrete is ever so simple. 

They pour concrete against steel rails with no allowance for thermal expansion. The ground warms up, the rails expand and have nowhere to go and so the concrete cracks. 

There's a whole wealth of sources you can find online about building tram tracks in a road and they all talk about the need to use some kind of encasement around the rail, usually a rubber type compound, to allow for thermal expansion.

I was told at the time that an order came from high up in the DOI that there was to be no such compound on cost saving grounds. 

Now whether it's true that somebody in the DOI thought they could outsmart the laws of physics... that would be a story.