Promenade - Megathread

[Gladys]

18 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Everyone likes a speed hump 

Speak for yourself. 

[doc.fixit]

13 hours ago, Ativa said:

Where is there block paving on a road that often floods with sea water?

Ramsey, parliament street. Don't you recall the twit in the canoe paddling along there a few years ago?

[SuperHans]

13 hours ago, Ativa said:

Closing the road has nothing to do with block paving? It’s for tarmac

No they’re block paving the new taxi rank as well up by Plan.com 

[Happier diner]

18 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

A budget isn't just a lump sum, it has to be broken down into parts by the QS to quantify for schedules of rates and get quotes where necessary for the very reason that once things start to overrun or the tenders come in over the budget, you can look for savings through 'value engineering'. There would have been a price tendered for the whole track. Or maybe should is a better word.

Value engineering being what can you cut from the original client brief that hopefully won't be noticed or can be done on the QT from another pot of money somewhere once the contigency has gone up in smoke. Rememebr there were DoI crews trying to pull them out of the hole at one point. I doubt that cost was atributed to the project costs. 

So if the rail is now finished it will need to be paid for and the nominal saving from not doing it has already been absorbed in the overun costs of the prom. Seriously doubt there is a lump of money labelled 'phase 2 tram track' left. And even there is with recent infaltion it won't be any where near enough to complete it.

Kind of!

As I understand it, Large Projects have a Project Cost. (A budget it normally what the Client  has put aside for the work. It is not related contractually to the Project Cost)

The Project Cost is broken down into parts, and part of the parts is a schedule of rates as you correctly state. The Project Cost is tendered by the contractor to cover the Scope of the project and make a bob or 2..

With the Prom the Client (DOI) varied the scope late into the programme in order to try and get back within budget. That scope reduction took the form of ending the track earlier. When you do things like this you are at the mercy of the contact terms and is the time for the consultants and contractor and sub contractors to start rubbing their hands with glee because you have varied from the contact and they can claim extra costs. Its the wrong way to do it and is normally only done if the Client is actually broke

This is different from value engineering. Value Engineering is done before the Project Cost is finalised and any changes are included in the Project Scope before the contact is signed. That's the right way to do it

Edited March 17, 2023 by Happier diner

[doc.fixit]

The mere mention of the words, 'plan', and 'value' make me laugh.......okay, cry.

[CallMeCurious]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

Kind of!

As I understand it, Large Projects have a Project Cost. (A budget it normally what the Client  has put aside for the work. It is not related contractually to the Project Cost)

The Project Cost is broken down into parts, and part of the parts is a schedule of rates as you correctly state. The Project Cost is tendered by the contractor to cover the Scope of the project and make a bob or 2..

With the Prom the Client (DOI) varied the scope late into the programme in order to try and get back within budget. That scope reduction took the form of ending the track earlier. When you do things like this you are at the mercy of the contact terms and is the time for the consultants and contractor and sub contractors to start rubbing their hands with glee because you have varied from the contact and they can claim extra costs. Its the wrong way to do it and is normally only done if the Client is actually broke

This is different from value engineering. Value Engineering is done before the Project Cost is finalised and any changes are included in the Project Scope before the contact is signed. That's the right way to do it

In these cases it's called 'value engineering' rather than descoping the project to stay within the budget after the contractor is onboard and try to protect the contigency, which once spent in its entirety means they have to go back to Treasury.

[Two-lane]

Courtesy of the Internet:

"Value engineering (VE) is a systematic analysis of the functions of various components and materials to lower the cost of goods, products and services with a tolerable loss of performance or functionality."

In the case of the prom., what was the product that was supplied vs what was the tolerable loss of functionality?

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

Courtesy of the Internet:

"Value engineering (VE) is a systematic analysis of the functions of various components and materials to lower the cost of goods, products and services with a tolerable loss of performance or functionality."

In the case of the prom., what was the product that was supplied vs what was the tolerable loss of functionality?

It wasn't value engineering at all. It was a desperate attempt to get back within the budget. 

[Dirty Buggane]

As far as I can see there was no engineering and definitely no fucking value what's so ever. 

[Happier diner]

12 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

As far as I can see there was no engineering and definitely no fucking value what's so ever. 

Thats a fair point.

[Dirty Buggane]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Thats a fair point.

If this abuse continue's I will be seeking a ban from the moderators. Coming on here and agreeing with me, of all the nerve.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Dirty Buggane

[Happier diner]

58 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

If this abuse continue's I will be seeking a ban from the moderators. Coming on here and agreeing with me, of all the nerve.

Sorry it was a temporary blip. I'm sorry if it threw you off kilter. Normal service will be resumed. 

TBF though, I dont think I have ever defended the cock up that was the prom. Yeah, I might have disagreed with some silly comments like thr roundels being deathtraps and 'illegal' crossings but in general I have agreed it's a badly conceived, badly managed and ultimately over priced mess.

[emesde]

Walking along the Queens prom the other day noticed a couple of people waiting to cross road at a light controlled crossing. The lights changed to red for the traffic to stop and they started to cross. The approaching horse tram made no attempt to slow down and half way across  the road the pedestrians  had to step back to avoid being flattened. Are the horse trams exempt from having to comply  with traffic lights.?? Does any one know? 

[kevster]

8 minutes ago, emesde said:

Walking along the Queens prom the other day noticed a couple of people waiting to cross road at a light controlled crossing. The lights changed to red for the traffic to stop and they started to cross. The approaching horse tram made no attempt to slow down and half way across  the road the pedestrians  had to step back to avoid being flattened. Are the horse trams exempt from having to comply  with traffic lights.?? Does any one know? 

Can the horses tell?

Horses can identify some colors; they see yellow and blue the best, but cannot recognize red. One study showed that horses could easily tell blue, yellow and green from gray, but not red. Horses also have a difficulty separating red from green, similar to humans who experience red/green color blindness.

Equine vision

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, kevster said:

Can the horses tell?

Horses can identify some colors; they see yellow and blue the best, but cannot recognize red. One study showed that horses could easily tell blue, yellow and green from gray, but not red. Horses also have a difficulty separating red from green, similar to humans who experience red/green color blindness.

Equine vision

But surely they know if the top light is illuminated it means stop. Muppets. Re test the lot of em.