finlo Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: Every £1 spent locally is worth £1.83 to the Manx economy, and buying from local retailers means the world to the person selling them. how does that work then? It's a throwback from Eddie Teare's random number generator days in treasury! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: Every £1 spent locally is worth £1.83 to the Manx economy, and buying from local retailers means the world to the person selling them. how does that work then? How does it work when the DOI are successfully preventing people from supporting local retailers on Douglas prom? ETA I wonder if it's associated with the VAT repayment calculation in some way? Edited December 2, 2019 by Non-Believer Extra bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Back to the prom ..... Saw a tram earlier going along at a pace. There was a guy inside with a microphone to measure the noise. Don't know how it was for him but it was bloody noisy for me walking on the prom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, MrPB said: It’s not surprising when they bolt the lines directly on top of about 2 feet of solid concrete. You’d have thought they’d have thought of the lack of give and vibration in any of the new set up when they designed it. It will be great for people to come to the IOM and get woken up by the early morning horse tram grating it’s way across the prom. You are giving them way too much credit on their ability to think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The most galling thing is the determination to press on regardless, in the face of overwhelming evidence that this isn’t going to plan, or is likely to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, MrPB said: It’s not surprising when they bolt the lines directly on top of about 2 feet of solid concrete. You’d have thought they’d have thought of the lack of give and vibration in any of the new set up when they designed it. It will be great for people to come to the IOM and get woken up by the early morning horse tram grating it’s way across the prom. You think there was an element of design in there? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: The most galling thing is the determination to press on regardless, in the face of overwhelming evidence that this isn’t going to plan, or is likely to work. Often what happens when things are ego or arrogance-driven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, MrPB said: Well I’m assuming that it’s common knowledge in engineering circles. Isn’t that why railway sleepers are wooden? To absorb the weight and the dissipate noise? On deciding to bolt rails directly onto two feet of immovable concrete surely the risk of extra noise had to have been considered? Railways have also used compressible ballast to bed sleepers in for hundreds of years. Clearly the DOI feel the need to overturn this established need and are reinventing the wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Railways have also used compressible ballast to bed sleepers in for hundreds of years. Clearly the DOI feel the need to overturn this established need and are reinventing the wheel. 16 minutes ago, MrPB said: Well I’m assuming that it’s common knowledge in engineering circles. Isn’t that why railway sleepers are wooden? To absorb the weight and the dissipate noise? On deciding to bolt rails directly onto two feet of immovable concrete surely the risk of extra noise had to have been considered? But, apart from heritage railways, does anyone, anywhere, use wooden sleepers nowadays, or at any time in the last 40 years. It’s all concrete sleepers. As for ballast, the old tram tracks weren’t on sleepers or ballast, nor are light railway or tram systems in 100’s of European cities, and even Blackpool, Manchester, Wimbledon, Edinburgh etc, when they run on streets, pavements, shared areas. Thats accepted engineering design practice for 120+ years. No wheel inventing there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 They have put packers on the second phase from say TT Shirts to Palace onwards of about 15 mm plus but they looked to me like metal which I'd thought would not help but what do I know . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, John Wright said: But, apart from heritage railways, does anyone, anywhere, use wooden sleepers nowadays, or at any time in the last 40 years. It’s all concrete sleepers. As for ballast, the old tram tracks weren’t on sleepers or ballast, nor are light railway or tram systems in 100’s of European cities, and even Blackpool, Manchester, Wimbledon, Edinburgh etc, when they run on streets, pavements, shared areas. Thats accepted engineering design practice for 120+ years. No wheel inventing there? It's the DOI it must be incorrect! Mind you the DLR is the noisiest railway I've ever been on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampsterkahn Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Presumably, there is a lot of knowledge and experience from from the many cities around the world that have trams and “they” will have availed themselves of this, (I read somewhere about in the Hague they had problems with a noise from resonance from similar natural frequencies of wheels track and the concrete base and nearby foundations of buildings which led to problems). I think it is really unlikely that professional engineers are unaware of such things. Edited December 2, 2019 by hampsterkahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Concrete sleepers still use ballast; but regardless...the problems with the rail installation on the promenade appear to exist, so something must be wrong somewhere? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The easiest way to fix the rail problem is to stop laying them when they reach the Villa. I'm told the horse tram part of the scheme is heading massively over budget already and it's highly likely they will scrap the Loch Promenade section (that also removes the need to lose 90 - 100 parking spaces which should prove popular with the public). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, foxdaleliberationfront said: The easiest way to fix the rail problem is to stop laying them when they reach the Villa. I'm told the horse tram part of the scheme is heading massively over budget already and it's highly likely they will scrap the Loch Promenade section (that also removes the need to lose 90 - 100 parking spaces which should prove popular with the public). I call bullshit on your 'I'm told....'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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