London's Mayor

[ButterflyMaiden]

Identity is another matter altogether.  A Jewish person,  any Jewish person  is entitled to Israeli citizenship – I myself hold dual nationality..

It must also be made clear that being  Jewish  is NOT a prerequisite to obtaining Jewish nationality however.

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Fascinating ..Id love to meet up so we could discuss all this. .. Just to quench my thirst a little more ... when you say Jewish nationality (above) is that Israeli nationality ? I think a lot of people (me included) are really ignorant about matters Jewish. That seems a shame given the common base of religious belief and the contribution made in all areas of British society by Jewish people.

Where or what could I read to learn a bit more Rog ?

[Lonan3]

Fascinating ..Id love to meet up so we could discuss all this. .. Just to quench my thirst a little more ... when you say Jewish nationality (above) is that Israeli nationality ? I think a lot of people (me included) are really ignorant about matters Jewish. That seems a shame given the common base of religious belief and the contribution made in all areas of British society by Jewish people.

Where or what could I read to learn a bit more Rog ?

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I would highly recommend Paul Johnson's A History of the Jews. It is, I think, well balanced (though perhaps a little too ready to accept some Biblical sources as 'history' for my taste) and he does his best to reach an understanding through their very long history. It is also immensely readable - even for the non-historian - and takes the story right through to just before the fall of the Soviet empire. An excellent work for anyone who is 'starting from scratch' on the subject.

[ButterflyMaiden]

I would highly recommend Paul Johnson's A History of the Jews.  It is, I think, well balanced (though perhaps a little too ready to accept some Biblical sources as 'history' for my taste) and he does his best to reach an understanding through their very long history.  It is also immensely readable - even for the non-historian - and takes the story right through to just before the fall of the Soviet empire.  An excellent work for anyone who is 'starting from scratch' on the subject.

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No better recommendation than a personal one ..thanx

[cheesemonster2005]

Has Ken Livingstone lost the plot ?

He gave a interview to Radio 4, which has been posted elsewhere on this forum, in which he maintained his outrage at the London bombers, but,surprisingly, seemed to offer comfort to those involved in terror attacks,including suicide bombers,in Israel.

His comments, which carry weight by reason of his status as London's mayor, have attracted strongly worded criticism from the global media as well as from Governments in Europe and further afield.

For the avoidance of doubt, you should check Mr Livingstone has not been misquoted, he hasn't.

All of this begs the question as to Mr Livingstone's motives.

He does have a long history of making remarks which, rightly or wrongly, have been construed as anti Semitic. He has also made no secret of his animosity towards Israel.

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Just found this message. I've met Mr. Livingstone twice, mainly whilst organising the anti-war demonstrations in Manchester and London in 2003. He's a very intelligent and likeable man. Many people have claimed that Ken is anti-semitic because he frequently speaks up for the Palestinian cause. I merely think that he's trying to make up for the lack of representation for the Palestinians in Britain and to a larger extent the US. He's using his position to help further their cause. Fair enough. I think by using the Palestinians in his speeches about 7/7 he may have been trying to draw comparisons and make Londoners think that it could have been a lot worse. Which it could have.

 

Red Ken forever!!

[Rog]

The question was recently raised on a London discussion forum regarding what Livingston has actually done for London, here are the unedited replies from a number of Londoners. Unedited and by no means all, just a representative sample.

 

Quote ---

 

He has made London into a laughing stock by assuming that he can speak on foreign affairs, acting as if he is an alternative Foreign Office. This arrogant individual has to understand that his biased views on the Middle East and his courting of Muslim extremists will improve nothing, here and abroad and will probably worsen the position. He seems to take the position he has in order to attract the now sizeable Muslim vote. This is a cynical use of politics.

 

Ken livingstonehas done something for London, given it a bad name and ruined everything that was good about it. I have never ever heard anything good said about him so why is he still out there? I think there should be a mass rally to oust him from his dirty little seat...any takers

 

Livinstone should not hold office "Look at all the LONDONERS who have come to Britain" Which Party does he come from ...Hamas

 

Ken Livingstone is a rabid and surprisingly open anti-semite. He courts the money and company of terrorists and their sympathisers. He promotes hatred of Jews and anyone with a hint of success to their name. Worst of all is his greenlight to suicide bombers activities in Israel. This man has no right to hold an form of public office. Oh yeah, and 8 pounds to drive into London – Ridiculous

 

He has given the green light to Islamic anti-Semites to attack Jews with impunity. As far as I am aware, he has done nothing for London except humiliate its citizens by inviting al Qaradawi, who supports suicide bombings and cruelty to women. I don't think one side of his brain knows what the other is doing. He further insults his constituents by refusing to apologise for his rantings

 

Livingstone makes people feel OK about hating the wealthy. One things all Communists and anti-Semites have in common is a hatred of productive and creative work: because they're afraid of it and fear those who excel at it. Livingstone is to London as Hitler was to Vienna (then Munich, then Berlin), and as Stalin was to Moscow. He wants to make people hate producers

 

Ken Livingstone has turned London into Londonstan. He sleeps with terrorists and spreads hatred of Jews. He blames Israel / Jews for putting Londoners in danger and then defends the murder of an innocent Brazilian. He is a racist antisemite. The word London is now a dirty word. He has put London into the sewer / gutter.

 

He's making London a more dangerous place by spewing his anti-western rubbish. He would appear to be on the side of the terrorists. Churchill must be turning over in his grave

 

After 7/7 he stood in front of the worlds press as if he was Winston Churchill. A week later he invites Islamic extremists for tea (as he has done before).Surely Ken Livingprick should now be arrested for encouraging and enciting those who support terror attacks under the govt's new laws.He should be locked up in Belmarsh with the rest of his subversive friends.

 

End of Quotes.

 

It would seem that he is not quite the all popular leader amongst Londoners that he is so often presented as being

[Paul H]

I do not even begin to know the details about Jews, Palestinians and their history because frankly, it does not concern me. It does however concern me when the problems in the Middle East start spilling into our neighbouring isle.

 

Why is it that we pre-occupy ourselves with sorting everyone else’s problems out? Religion and Politics are all too similar in my view. Each faction is trying to use influence and power to repress the opposition. This has been the way of life for all civilisations since time began and yet we still battle to come to terms with it.

 

Let us look after our own countries religious and political balance before taking on the rest of the world. In the United Kingdom, there is becoming more and more religious instability and this will undoubtedly lead to a political instability one day, if we let it.

[Rog]

“How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war.”

 

(Neville Chamberlain)

 

We all know what followed

 

“-- a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing –“

 

It was in fact the bleeding edge between a force of good and a force of utter evil, just as the world war that is ramping up today is the same and again the bleeding edge happens to be between a country that is far away and about which people on the UK know very little beyond the propaganda, increasingly strident and negative on the one hand, and islam, an ideology that knows no national bounds beyond Dar ul Sallam and Dar ul Harb.

 

It’s time our politicians learned a few facts of life and decided that they are want to live in either Dar ul Sallam or Dar ul Harb together with the rest of us.

[Paul H]

If they want to live in either Dar ul Sallam or Dar ul Harb that's fine. Just as long as they are places a long way away from here and don't expect to be welcome if they are going to make the journey.

[Rog]

If they want to live in either Dar ul Sallam or Dar ul Harb that's fine. Just as long as they are places a long way away from here and don't expect to be welcome if they are going to make the journey.

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Dar ul Sallam – the world of islam.

 

Dar ul Harb – everywhere else - the place of war.

 

You already live in Dar ul Harb

[Lonan3]

We can ignore them if we wish - but I don't think they're likely to forget that Britain played a very large part in drawing up their battle lines!

As for Ken Livingstone, I give him grudging admiration for someone who sticks to his principles, even while questioning them. IMO he is a man too much lauded by his supporters and too much decried by his opponents.

[Rog]

We can ignore them if we wish - but I don't think they're likely to forget that Britain played a very large part in drawing up their battle lines!

As for Ken Livingstone, I give him grudging admiration for someone who sticks to his principles, even while questioning them.  IMO he is a man too much lauded by his supporters and too much decried by his opponents.

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The battle lines were drawn up 1300 years ago.

 

There have been periods of armistice but never true peace let alone surrender.

 

The war goes on especially today with the islamic renaissance that it taking place and that is, despite all that is said to the contrary, at the root of the present upsurge in islamic attacks in the world.

 

The activists once more seek to both reclaim what was once theirs (watch out Spain and a few other places) and to conquer fresh territory..

[Paul H]

If they want to live in either Dar ul Sallam or Dar ul Harb that's fine. Just as long as they are places a long way away from here and don't expect to be welcome if they are going to make the journey.

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Dar ul Sallam – the world of islam.

 

Dar ul Harb – everywhere else - the place of war.

 

You already live in Dar ul Harb

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Jewish clever bugger eh? Well let me tell you I don't live in Dar ul Harb, I live in the Isle of Man yessir, and don't you bloody forget it! You can take your Dar ul Sallam or mysterious non existing world and shove it up your arse becuase it is not in this world. And if this world were a world of war look at who's looking to start one?

 

Bloody Islam, that's who

[ButterflyMaiden]

Why is it that we pre-occupy ourselves with sorting everyone else’s problems out?

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The answer to that question, Paul, is that the well being of Britain and its sphere of influence, including the Isle of Man, depends in no small measure on events in the rest of the world.

[theintelligentthug]

We can ignore them if we wish - but I don't think they're likely to forget that Britain played a very large part in drawing up their battle lines!

.

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thats like saying "he started it!!"

 

nonsense. if people dont want to live in peace then thats fine, they can go and kill themselves and blow each other up an' shizzle.

[Rog]

There is no doubt whatsoever that the problems in the whole region come about as a result of the utterly disgraceful political machinations of successive British governments following Britain being mandated to provide temporary administration over the region following the break up of the Ottoman Empire after WW1

 

The latest developments involving Livingstone should prove interesting. The reporter is a fool and has failed to realise that he was being used by Livingstone at the time.