Barrie Stevens Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 1 minute ago, woolley said: It doesn't really. It has no cards at all. Ireland is simply afraid of the outcome. It is only important because the "backstop" has been promoted as the essential obstacle to overcome. In fact it is the means by which the UK is meant to stay in a customs union with the EU and it always was. If the backstop is essential until it is superseded by a "permanent arrangement", and the backstop is de facto a customs union, it follows logically that the permanent arrangement is also planned to be a customs union. That is what makes the parliamentary gymnastics so inane. In the end, much like the Isle of Man, Ireland will get what it's given. There is no way that France and Germany will defer to Ireland against their own interests despite the lip service they pay to EU solidarity. Tell it to the Marines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 46 minutes ago, woolley said: It doesn't really. It has no cards at all. Ireland is simply afraid of the outcome. It is only important because the "backstop" has been promoted as the essential obstacle to overcome. In fact it is the means by which the UK is meant to stay in a customs union with the EU and it always was. If the backstop is essential until it is superseded by a "permanent arrangement", and the backstop is de facto a customs union, it follows logically that the permanent arrangement is also planned to be a customs union. That is what makes the parliamentary gymnastics so inane. In the end, much like the Isle of Man, Ireland will get what it's given. There is no way that France and Germany will defer to Ireland against their own interests despite the lip service they pay to EU solidarity. That is a technical view but the open reality is that Ireland is in a pivotal position and the UK has a blade at its throat...One way or the other we have Ireland whether in the form of the Republic or Northern Ireland being in position to tip the see-saw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: So the Haganah commited no murder..Mmmm>? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster So it must have been manslaughter then? Murder of our own? No. Manslaughter? No, because no criminal act was taking place other than in the eyes of the Brits, Blue on Blue possible or misadventure certainly. In any event they were casualties of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Rog said: Murder of our own? No. Manslaughter? No, because no criminal act was taking place other than in the eyes of the Brits, Blue on Blue possible or misadventure certainly. In any event they were casualties of war. And the ship's company have you asked them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Rog said: Murder of our own? No. Manslaughter? No, because no criminal act was taking place other than in the eyes of the Brits, Blue on Blue possible or misadventure certainly. In any event they were casualties of war. If you read the article it is apparent that even the militants though that this was a bad thing to have done...And it seems 50 merchant sailors were killed. They were probably French but most certainly non-combatants and were by definition murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: If you read the article it is apparent that even the militants though that this was a bad thing to have done...And it seems 50 merchant sailors were killed. They were probably French but most certainly non-combatants and were by definition murdered. No, Barrie, died. Not murdered. Murder involves deliberate intent to kill. There was absolutely no intent to kill, simply disable the ship. Edited to add ---- So by your definition if the killing of non-combatants, especially the deliberate killing of non-combatants (which was NOT the case in point) amounts to murder then by definition the carpet bombing by the Brits during WW2 was mass murder as well as a war crime under the terms of the Geneva Conventions not to mention the use of weapons of mass destruction by the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: That is a technical view but the open reality is that Ireland is in a pivotal position and the UK has a blade at its throat...One way or the other we have Ireland whether in the form of the Republic or Northern Ireland being in position to tip the see-saw That's ridiculous. It's like saying Gibraltar holds the fate of the UK and Spain in its hands. Sorry Bazza, but you've gone way off beam on this one. Although everyone will listen to Ireland's concerns and perhaps use their interests as a fig leaf for doing this or that, but nobody is going to allow Ireland to dictate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Oh look! A unicorn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, woolley said: That's ridiculous. It's like saying Gibraltar holds the fate of the UK and Spain in its hands. Sorry Bazza, but you've gone way off beam on this one. Although everyone will listen to Ireland's concerns and perhaps use their interests as a fig leaf for doing this or that, but nobody is going to allow Ireland to dictate. Who said dictate....Try looking out of the window... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, Barrie Stevens said: Who said dictate....Try looking out of the window... I'm already outside. It's beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Quote once in Schengen you don’t even have to flash documents on intra Schengen border crossings. Usually. They can ask at any time if they feel like it. I travel between BOD and AGP regularly. Sometimes you have to produce an ID card or passport but usually you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 21 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Oh look! A unicorn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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