Laxey flooding

[Max Power]

10 minutes ago, woolley said:

I think there is only so much you can do against extreme conditions. Yes, you keep the river as clear as possible for the maximum flow. Yes, you build up banks and defences within reason. But that stretch of narrow river is collecting water from a massive catchment (in Island terms). I think flash floods under extremely intense deluge events are inevitable. There is so much that it has to go somewhere.

Where there's blame, there's a claim. It just seems that people need to have someone they can point the finger at rather than accept that the circumstances were unusual. It's unfortunate that work was going on to improve defences at the time of this event.

[ecobob]

2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

MNH now denying it had anything to do with the old weir/sluice gate that the trees got caught behind.

Indeed they have. This despite a personal assurance from the MUA boss on Wednesday of this week that he’d gone back to the office following my reporting of it as a flood hazard on 19th of September and discovered paper work saying that the MUA had tried to remove it three times and each time the removal had been objected to by MNH. 

I just tackled him about it now. He was squirming and denied he’d told me any such thing. When I pursued it again with him he said, “Well, it’s down now!”  

This was the man who reported the breach  in the wall had only been there for two weeks when it was actually taken down in August  

Another interesting report came from Martin Perkins this morning who told me that despite extensive enquiries, the government cannot actually find out which department authorised the work in the river. They are all denying responsibility. He is raising a question in Tynwald on Monday. 

The residents don’t expect them to solve the flooding issue in its entirety but at the very least they expect that the entire government does not try to absolve themselves of any responsibility.  

Is this the government we want? Is this the government we deserve? 

There are two residents left in Glen Road. The rest displaced and have lost just about everything from their homes. 

That this is happening and the government are trying to absolve themselves is utterly utterly shameful. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ecobob

[ecobob]

16 minutes ago, woolley said:

I think there is only so much you can do against extreme conditions. Yes, you keep the river as clear as possible for the maximum flow. Yes, you build up banks and defences within reason. But that stretch of narrow river is collecting water from a massive catchment (in Island terms). I think flash floods under extremely intense deluge events are inevitable. There is so much that it has to go somewhere.

You are right. But the flaw in your post is that even the things that could have been done weren’t. 

The river survey of 2016 made many recommendations. Very few of which were   taken up. 

Dead trees in the river, banks collapsed into the river, overgrown trees. Nothing was done except to mark the worse of the trees with red paint. These were the trees caught in the sluice gate, the red paint clearly seen. 

 

[ecobob]

11 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Where there's blame, there's a claim. It just seems that people need to have someone they can point the finger at rather than accept that the circumstances were unusual. It's unfortunate that work was going on to improve defences at the time of this event.

I’m sorry Max but you are wrong. Every single person who lives in Glen Road knows that the flood water came from the unsecured gap in the wall created by the contractors. There was no water behind the gap and a torrent in front. 

The river did not rise significantly on Tuesday. It has been much worse than that in the past. 

If that gap had not been left in the wall people’s houses would not have been flooded. 

The whitewash now is because the insurance companies are going to recover their losses from the government.  

Every house on the Glen Road is looking at claims of 100k+  

As the yanks say  Do the math.  

 

You are also wrong about the work being done to improve the defences  the work was being done to assist the salmon to climb the river to spawn  it was an eco project  Nothing at all to do with improving defences  In fact it was just the opposite  

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ecobob
To add last para

[woolley]

The wall had been down for an inordinate amount of time considering it is a risk. That old weir sluice gate paraphernalia was just an eyesore anyhow. Should have been moved years ago merely on the grounds of aesthetics.

Beyond that, clearly everything should be done to assist the residents to rebuild their homes and lives. Then, appropriate measures should be taken for future mitigation as far as practical. However, as I already said, under the extreme conditions experienced this week, I think such flooding events in such a vulnerable location are unavoidable. If you drop a gallon of water onto a pint pot it will go somewhere.

[woolley]

7 minutes ago, ecobob said:

You are right. But the flaw in your post is that even the things that could have been done weren’t. 

The river survey of 2016 made many recommendations. Very few of which were   taken up. 

Dead trees in the river, banks collapsed into the river, overgrown trees. Nothing was done except to mark the worse of the trees with red paint. These were the trees caught in the sluice gate, the red paint clearly seen. 

 

Posted my previous before seeing this. Of course I agree under the principle of "appropriate measures should be taken for future mitigation as far as practical".

[TheTeapot]

18 minutes ago, ecobob said:

 

Another interesting report came from Martin Perkins this morning [...] He is raising a question in Tynwald on Monday. 

 

Not like him...

[woolley]

9 minutes ago, ecobob said:

I’m sorry Max but you are wrong. Every single person who lives in Glen Road knows that the flood water came from the unsecured gap in the wall created by the contractors. There was no water behind the gap and a torrent in front. 

The river did not rise significantly on Tuesday. It has been much worse than that in the past. 

If that gap had not been left in the wall people’s houses would not have been flooded. 

 

I don't pretend to be the physics expert on this, but is this really the case?

There seems to have been an awful lot of water for it all to have flowed through one small breach in the wall. I accept fully that some of it would have done so, and that would have made matters worse. But the torrent of the scale we saw flowing down Glen Road? All because of that? It seemed to me to be heading in volume from all directions including from the hillside behind the houses.

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

I think the DoI has become an uncontrollable monster and should be broken down into clear areas of responsibility. How is Harmer supposed to know every facet of what is going on all over the island? This is where the ministerial system becomes ridiculous, look at the DHSS, another out of control monster! I guess it gives Chief Executives a larger salary and pension, making them ever so important! 

This occurrence wasn't a Harmer/DOI pigeon though. Carey's were working under contract for the Water and Rivers side of the MUA.

Spleen venting needs to be directed towards Allinson, Perkins and new member (God help him), Tim Baker.

[Manxman27]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:50 PM, Non-Believer said:

Carey's were also contracting for the MUA on this project.

In 2015 when the floods trashed the NSC part of the blame lay in the build up of debris lying in the channel between the NSC and McD's. DOI have only just had contractors in doing some clearing work in the past few weeks. So 4 years to get to a problem. Although the clearing was going to be sympathetic to the ducks....

I go past there multiple times per week. They cleared it after the floods in 2015. So this isn't the first time they have cleared it.

[ecobob]

43 minutes ago, woolley said:

I don't pretend to be the physics expert on this, but is this really the case?

There seems to have been an awful lot of water for it all to have flowed through one small breach in the wall. I accept fully that some of it would have done so, and that would have made matters worse. But the torrent of the scale we saw flowing down Glen Road? All because of that? It seemed to me to be heading in volume from all directions including from the hillside behind the houses.

I give you my word.

It wasn’t just the gap though. It was also the position of the digger that was parked on the river bank to the left of the gap. The digger acted as a dam directing the water through. 

On Monday night about fifty ton bags of sand were being uploaded. The residents assumed it was the plug the gap but instead they were unloaded into the river and created another barrier pushing more water through. 

At 12pm on Monday when person’s unknown authorised a further hole to be knocked through just after the sluice gate, within an hour the water dropped 1.5 metres down on glen road. It went from over window height on the east side to being able to see the ground again in one hour. 

If the river hadn’t been able to take it then the waters would not have subsided. 

I repeat. This was NOT a normal flood event. This was incompetence and you won’t find one person on the glen road who will tell you anything different. 

Theres only a handful of people at the moment who believe otherwise. The boss of the MUA, Dr Allinson (who was briefed by senior civil servants on what to say) and Howard Quayle. 

Why might that be? 

Come and see it. I’m the one in a hard hat and wellies shovelling shit off the road. Give me a shout. I’ll stand by my word and and anyone still let there will say the same. 

Edited to add and I know I keep repeating myself but at 7/8/9am on Tuesday when the waters were over my wellies but the road was still crossable, there wasn’t ONE drop of water coming down the road behind the gap. Not one. And in front of it a torrent. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ecobob
Cant spell.

[woolley]

Defer to your on the spot assessment, Bob.

[ecobob]

Look at the photo. 

Can you see any water behind the unsecured gap in the river defence wall? 

Can you see the force of the water after the gap going down glen road? 

Can you see what the residents are banging on about? 

[ecobob]

And another...

[Max Power]

Can't really argue with that Bob, the DoI have failed in their duty of care and need to man up and take responsibility instead of expending their energy defending the indefensible!