Laxey flooding

[forestboy]

13 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Better late than never: https://www.gov.im/media/1376022/portal-watercourse-vegetation-maintenance-web-advert-final.pdf

Yes many years too late especially after the regional river gangs were disbanded. 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

Correct.  I walked up the Glen Roy valley a few months before the flood and noticed the crazy amount of fallen trees in the river.  Used to spend a lot of time around there when I was a kid and don't recall it ever being like that and it must have been maintained in some shape or form previously. 

That and of course the big hole in the wall at the time of a heavy rain warning. 

In big storms floods you always get logs/twigs washed down. No amount of maintenance would help significantly. Its is sensible to remove fallen trees from time to time. Leaving a hole in a wall/leaving a digger in a river when there is a yellow warning for flood was plain stupid. No one could question that. However the river over topped the wall downstream of both these and so in that respect they did not cause that. In a bizarre way they reduced that, to the detriment of properties higher up the valley unfortunately.

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

It's a phenomenon that's everywhere, including "managed" areas like the plantations. We've just stopped doing maintenance like it became unfashionable. We used to have work gangs for rivers, waterways and bridges, with chest waders and chainsaws, all gone now and replaced in part by desk jockeys.

True, but as above, unless there were hundreds of them employed across the Island, its a drop in the Ocean

2 hours ago, WTF said:

some of the bigger branches and tree bits came from the un kept trees on the river banks and caused the dam effect at the bridge that got washed out,  if the banks with the trees on them had been kept as they should with routine maintenance then there wouldn't have been the flooding in the first place. that bridge had lasted a long time until the river banks became neglected.

River Banks are nature. Rivers are nature. When man interferes things tend to get worse. 

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

I recall reading, probably on this forum, that the reason was not fashion but because it would cost money and anyway no manager could be bothered.

At the Pavilion meeting after the flood, Allinson made an extensive speech in which he said only two things: that he was sorry, and that he would ensure trees were removed from the river.

I wonder if he did.

2 hours ago, Two-lane said:

Anyone who wanders around a bit will have seen debris being carried down the river during floods. It was an obvious problem, but not the only reason the bridge collapsed:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/failure-to-act-on-warnings-led-to-isle-of-man-bridge-collapse-21-10-2020/

Interesting

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

Insurance companies will probably take note of the Arup report which states that over-topping of the bank was not significant and that the properties were flooded by water coming down the road.
If the proposed 4 feet high wall was in place during the last flood, there would have been no difference in the result. None. Zero. Completely bugger all.

 

Agreed.

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

In big storms floods you always get logs/twigs washed down. No amount of maintenance would help significantly. Its is sensible to remove fallen trees from time to time. Leaving a hole in a wall/leaving a digger in a river when there is a yellow warning for flood was plain stupid. No one could question that. However the river over topped the wall downstream of both these and so in that respect they did not cause that. In a bizarre way they reduced that, to the detriment of properties higher up the valley unfortunately.

True, but as above, unless there were hundreds of them employed across the Island, its a drop in the Ocean

River Banks are nature. Rivers are nature. When man interferes things tend to get worse. 

I wonder if he did.

Interesting

Agreed.

The old work gangs never consisted of hundreds. Couple of dozen at most and some were not even fully engaged on that job, they had various duties outwith river maintenance throughout the year. One chap I know, long since died, worked on river maintenance in the late autumn and into the end of the year and then switched to port maintenance at other times. They had multi-functional jobs. But it did consist of people who knew what they were doing and what needed to be done at the right time with management who actually knew how things worked. Unlike today's desk jockeys. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

The old work gangs never consisted of hundreds. Couple of dozen at most and some were not even fully engaged on that job, they had various duties outwith river maintenance throughout the year. One chap I know, long since died, worked on river maintenance in the late autumn and into the end of the year and then switched to port maintenance at other times. They had multi-functional jobs. But it did consist of people who knew what they were doing and what needed to be done at the right time with management who actually knew how things worked. Unlike today's desk jockeys. 

Accepted. No one can say with confidence though, that, had they still been employed, that Laxey flood would not have occurred. It seems like maybe a rose tinted memory to me. I'm sure that there were some issues with them as there is with all direct employed workers. 

[Two-lane]

The DoI has decided that granite of out of fashion, and that plate glass is this season' s new thing. The low-quality image does not show the white dots all over the plate glass - presumably there to stop people walking into it. I presume Lower Laxey is not a conservation area.

You can see that flood water (if it gets that high) will back up behind the bridge, so they seem to have built an embankment to prevent the flood water making an encircling manoeuvre. It could be the Maginot Line all over again.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Two-lane

[Two-lane]

[Boris Johnson]

6 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Is this called "Spot The Engineering Mistake? 

There is a series of TV programs on Sky about engineering mistakes, are we trying to feature on it?

FFS Where do they think a backed up water level will go? Will it be scared of the trees on the right of the bund? Or are they planning on putting a small digger there in case of flooding?

You could not make this sh1t up.

 

[Two-lane]

2 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

FFS Where do they think a backed up water level will go? Will it be scared of the trees on the right of the bund? Or are they planning on putting a small digger there in case of flooding?

It is perhaps not even that good. The Shore Hotel was flooded not by water over-topping the river bank, but by flood water running down Minorca Hill and straight over the bridge. They have installed a new flood drain, maybe a couple of feet in diameter, under Minorca Hill road.... but it exits into the river upstream of the constriction (the bridge) and at the same level as the bridge. So in the case of a flood, maybe the force of the river water will be fighting against the pressure of the water coming down the storm drain trying to get into the river. So long as the pub stays open, all will be well.

[Andy Onchan]

How prepared are DOI and others for what's coming our way on Friday:
 

[MadAsHell]

44 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

How prepared are DOI and others for what's coming our way on Friday:
 

Still plenty of time to knock a few walls down.

[GD4ELI]

45 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

How prepared are DOI and others for what's coming our way on Friday:
 

Depends on how dry & hard the catchment area is.

[Andy Onchan]

3 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Depends on how dry & hard the catchment area is.

Or how well maintained the riverbanks and flood defences have been over the last 12 months or so.

 

[GD4ELI]

1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

Or how well maintained the riverbanks and flood defences have been over the last 12 months or so.

 

Well, having lived in the Alps I've experienced at first-hand how important it is to have water / snow retention in the surrounding mountains (hills) to slow the rush of water.

[Holte End]

5 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Or how well maintained the riverbanks and flood defences have been over the last 12 months or so.

 

I thought Rob Callister had spent all the MUA money.

[0bserver]

Are we expecting Friday to be particularly epic? 

The forecast shows gales and heavy rain but no different to what we would usually get about this time of year.