Laxey flooding

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah sure. Not a problem in a 'natural' river. But the river isn't natural anymore. The lower parts and the whole flood plain has been manipulated, constrained and built upon. 

Interfere downriver and you have to interfere up river.

It's futile to interfere up river so we are stuck with it. How can you clear fallen wood that has not yet fallen. The wind and the rain brings it down and then the water carries it down the river. Twas always thus.

[Non-Believer]

14 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

Every piece of wood that got caught in the weir in 2019 carried a red painted number. The numbers were painted early 2016 following the flood in December 2015. These were the trees earmarked for felling due to disease as per the plan. None of them were felled. The only part of the plan that was implemented was the painting of the numbers. Had these trees been felled and cut into one metre lengths (also as per the plan), then, had theyfallen in the river, they would not have caused the blockage and the river would not have backed up, breaking down the flood defence wall.

So I do not buy your assumption that maintenance has no place in flood risk. If you go to Laxey glen you will see that in the three years since the log catchers were installed, there are only small branches being trapped, no large trees or parts of large trees. That's because the remaining diseased trees have now been felled and removed. Trees need husbandry along with every other living plant. The ones on the river banks have now been removed so the risk is far lower, for now.

It's entirely indicative of PS policy of the time, reactive rather than proactive maintenance and it extended far beyond tree-felling.

It's my belief that it originated from "savings" implemented arising from the VAT clawback but somehow it became ingrained into Govt culture. On top of that, vanity and glory schemes were then allowed to take precedence and flourish on the back of the maintenance matters taking a back seat.

Thankfully, there are now signs that this is coming to an end.

[Roxanne]

I was with you 100% until this..

10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Thankfully, there are now signs that this is coming to an end.

Is it though?

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

I was with you 100% until this..

Is it though?

Probably not.

As has been alluded to, maintenance is a dirty word in IOMG circles to be avoided at all and any cost. You only have to look round at some of the publicly owned assets to see that.

[The Phantom]

When I went up there a few months before the flood, there were probably 100s of downed trees in the river.  It looked like a giant had played pick-up sticks.  Was completely impenetrable in places and it looked like most of them had been there for quite some time. 

You've got to remember though, that almost all those trees upriver are from a manmade plantation, which inherently has to be managed to some extent.  The Glen Roy/Laxey River dynamic never evolved with 100,000s closely spaced poorly rooted trees upriver.  

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

When I went up there a few months before the flood, there were probably 100s of downed trees in the river.  It looked like a giant had played pick-up sticks.  Was completely impenetrable in places and it looked like most of them had been there for quite some time. 

You've got to remember though, that almost all those trees upriver are from a manmade plantation, which inherently has to be managed to some extent.  The Glen Roy/Laxey River dynamic never evolved with 100,000s closely spaced poorly rooted trees upriver.  

Its a fair observation. The Island is littered with these sorts of fallen trees. Yes they should be sorted out but it would be a massive undertaking. Any been in touch with DEFA to ask what their intentions are.

I have to say though that the photo that was posted does not look like those trees. It looks like branches and much younger trees.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Happier diner

[Andy Onchan]

7 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Its a fair observation. The Island is littered with these sorts of fallen trees. Yes they should be sorted out but it would be a massive undertaking. Any been in touch with DEFA to ask what their intentions are.

A planned maintenance schedule would be a start. Shouldn't need to ask for that though, surely?

[The Phantom]

18 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Its a fair observation. The Island is littered with these sorts of fallen trees. Yes they should be sorted out but it would be a massive undertaking. Any been in touch with DEFA to ask what their intentions are.

I have to say though that the photo that was posted does not look like those trees. It looks like branches and much younger trees.

To be honest I've noticed over the last few years many of the Plantations seem to have a lot more trees down than they did in the past.  Frankly I'm not sure of the reasons, windier? rainier? different directions? disease? or just a wholesale lack of maintenance compared to the past. 

Some of the Plantations will see a bit of work if the trees block the main fire trails/paths, but other than that nothing really.  Others will also have 'trail fairies' to clear and maintain the mountain bike trails, but this is generally informal and nothing to do with DEFA unless it's South Barrule. 

Another issue I've noticed is that trees around the perimeters will usually be more durable, as they've grown up taking the brunt of the wind and will be strongly rooted.  However as soon as these fall, it's then like a domino effect through the Planation, as the trees farther in are not as resistant to the wind. 

 

[Andy Onchan]

55 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

To be honest I've noticed over the last few years many of the Plantations seem to have a lot more trees down than they did in the past.  Frankly I'm not sure of the reasons, windier? rainier? different directions? disease? or just a wholesale lack of maintenance compared to the past. 

Some of the Plantations will see a bit of work if the trees block the main fire trails/paths, but other than that nothing really.  Others will also have 'trail fairies' to clear and maintain the mountain bike trails, but this is generally informal and nothing to do with DEFA unless it's South Barrule. 

Another issue I've noticed is that trees around the perimeters will usually be more durable, as they've grown up taking the brunt of the wind and will be strongly rooted.  However as soon as these fall, it's then like a domino effect through the Planation, as the trees farther in are not as resistant to the wind. 

 

Disease.

[The Phantom]

10 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Disease.

It's unsurprising if you cram so many trees of just one single species so closely together in one place. 

You'd assume that the ones on the edges would be more likely to contract it also, then creating the domino effect of disease and falling throughout the rest of the plantation. 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

A planned maintenance schedule would be a start. Shouldn't need to ask for that though, surely?

All Island or just Laxey catchment?

Who is going to pay?

I don't want to

[Happier diner]

39 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

It's unsurprising if you cram so many trees of just one single species so closely together in one place. 

You'd assume that the ones on the edges would be more likely to contract it also, then creating the domino effect of disease and falling throughout the rest of the plantation. 

I think Forestry dept planted them all donkeys years ago. They are supposed to be thinned and harvested. They are worthless so they have been left to rot. The whole lot need felling really. 

[forestboy]

The area river gangs should be reinstated. 

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

All Island or just Laxey catchment?

Who is going to pay?

I don't want to

I would suggest that Laxey is priority given what has happened.

Taxes have been paid over the years but no maintenance has taken place, there really is no excuse.

And of course you're not going to pay, it doesn't affect you does it?

[Happier diner]

49 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

o pay 67 million for the flood remedial works. That's 67 million, and counting btw.

You do not know this. You are basically saying if there were no trees on the Island then there would be no floods in Laxey