UK General Election Dec 2019

[P.K.]

15 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

The bit that you are not getting (and never have got) is that, if you call your debating partners 'Stupid', then not only are they not going to debate with you, they are going to beat you.

You have been beaten - do you not have the intelligence to get that yet?

You have lost the EU, lost Brexit, lost the argument, and are about to lose any sense of debating power you have left, because you insist on calling your debating opponents 'stupid'.

Do you not get that P.K.?

The totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit will only be considered a win when the performance of UK PLC outside of the EU exceeds that of the performance of UK PLC inside of the EU. Do you have the intelligence to understand that measure of success?

It makes me smile when the brexiteers on here keep quoting that the UK is the fifth largest economy. Because after the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 the UK came away with the best deal in the best trading bloc on the planet.

After that up to the referendum the UK achieved GDP growth of 122% beating powerhouse Germany's 84% and knocking France back from #2 to #3 in the EU GDP pecking order.

In other words the UK absolutely thrived as a member of the EU.

Hard act to follow.

Bearing the above in mind here is a question for you:

10 hours ago, P.K. said:

Like the rest of the brexiteers on here you must think the UK will do better outside of the EU than being on the inside where it had also influence for change.

What do you base that belief on?

Preferably £facts and not airy fairy political bullspeak please.

 

[Rog]

21 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Not yet.

I guess with your medication that's a pleasure now denied you.

You have my sympathy sir...

Not totally denied, but certainly restricted. Maybe that's by the need for BREXIT is so patently obvious.

 

[P.K.]

4 minutes ago, Rog said:

Not totally denied, but certainly restricted. Maybe that's by the need for BREXIT is so patently obvious.

At least you're still with us.

[Rog]

13 minutes ago, P.K. said:

At least you're still with us.

There are some who will not see that as a good thing!

[manxman1980]

10 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

You have lost the EU, lost Brexit, lost the argument, 

I am not entirely sure you can say that those in favour of remain "lost Brexit".  They never wanted it after all.  You could say lost the debate on Brexit which would  be more accurate.

Also remember that what happens in January is not Brexit finished.  The withdraw agreement should be the easy bit.  Then the Government has to negotiate the new relationship with the EU and finalise those "oven ready" trade deals that Johnson has been talking about.

On top of that the Government need to sort out the situation with both Scotland and Northern Ireland whilst preserving the Union (assuming that the Conservative and Unionist Party stick to their core beliefs).  They can no longer threaten the Scots with the statement that leaving the UK means leaving the EU.

As for Northern Ireland if trade and normal day to day life becomes more difficult then I would expect to see a rise in calls for the reunification of Ireland.  A look at the election results there does suggest a shift in that direction. 

A busy few months ahead for Johnson and his team.

 

[quilp]

Doubtful that Brussels would have Scotland without the rest of GB. Can't see it.

[Rog]

7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I am not entirely sure you can say that those in favour of remain "lost Brexit".  They never wanted it after all.  You could say lost the debate on Brexit which would  be more accurate.

Also remember that what happens in January is not Brexit finished.  The withdraw agreement should be the easy bit.  Then the Government has to negotiate the new relationship with the EU and finalise those "oven ready" trade deals that Johnson has been talking about.

On top of that the Government need to sort out the situation with both Scotland and Northern Ireland whilst preserving the Union (assuming that the Conservative and Unionist Party stick to their core beliefs).  They can no longer threaten the Scots with the statement that leaving the UK means leaving the EU.

As for Northern Ireland if trade and normal day to day life becomes more difficult then I would expect to see a rise in calls for the reunification of Ireland.  A look at the election results there does suggest a shift in that direction. 

A busy few months ahead for Johnson and his team.

 

 Just declare BREXIT.  A cold hard BREXIT.  Then and only then will we be in position to establish ongoing relationships with the corrupt undemocratic European Commission without being blackmailed by it. To make the restoration of our independence conditional on the European Commission agreeing to the terms of our release is simply crazy. 

As for Scotland, to hell with what approx 10% of the population of the UK are "demanding". They can go whistle.  They are a part of the UK as a whole. End of.

[woolley]

35 minutes ago, quilp said:

Doubtful that Brussels would have Scotland without the rest of GB. Can't see it.

And even if they were minded to, what would they do about the border?  A much bigger problem and proposition than the Irish border. Sturgeon is silent on the matter. 

[the stinking enigma]

We'll build a wall. A big beautiful shiny new wall.

[P.K.]

58 minutes ago, Rog said:

 Just declare BREXIT.  A cold hard BREXIT.  Then and only then will we be in position to establish ongoing relationships with the corrupt undemocratic European Commission without being blackmailed by it. To make the restoration of our independence conditional on the European Commission agreeing to the terms of our release is simply crazy. 

A no deal crash out, a requirement of Johnson's £backers, would mean WTO tariffs of up to 40% on UK exports of goods and services.

This will destroy their competitiveness and lead to real financial difficulties.

It's madness. Only a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar would even consider it....

[woolley]

23 minutes ago, P.K. said:

A no deal crash out, a requirement of Johnson's £backers, would mean WTO tariffs of up to 40% on UK exports of goods and services.

This will destroy their competitiveness and lead to real financial difficulties.

It's madness. Only a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar would even consider it....

Calm down. All will be well. Brexit is not unnecessary.  

[woolley]

1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said:

We'll build a wall. A big beautiful shiny new wall.

Good thinking, Stinky. Hadrian II.

[Rog]

8 minutes ago, P.K. said:

A no deal crash out, a requirement of Johnson's £backers, would mean WTO tariffs of up to 40% on UK exports of goods and services.

This will destroy their competitiveness and lead to real financial difficulties.

It's madness. Only a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar would even consider it....

I disagree - well obviously I would.  But the reason include that we will be free to import what we want without facing EU restrictions, we will be free of the EU common agricultural policy see the end of the common fishing policy and it's dreadfully wasteful quotas, reciprocal health services, free of trans border social services that sees our taxes being sent to alleged families in Europe and so much more but best of all control of our borders and as the dreadful laws that the corrupt undemocratic European Commission imposed on us are rescinded set about kicking undesirables out of OUR country.  And that's just the START of the benefits that will come with the return of our own sovereignty.

[Rog]

36 minutes ago, P.K. said:

A no deal crash out, a requirement of Johnson's £backers, would mean WTO tariffs of up to 40% on UK exports of goods and services.

This will destroy their competitiveness and lead to real financial difficulties.

It's madness. Only a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar would even consider it....

Still waiting for the lies to be spelled out.

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, quilp said:

Doubtful that Brussels would have Scotland without the rest of GB. Can't see it.

Surely that would be for a potentially independent Scotland and the EU to negotiate.  Do not forget at the last independence referendum that the UK Government told the population of Scotland that a vote to leave the UK would be a vote to leave the EU.  As the UK is now leaving that is happening anyway. 

2 hours ago, Rog said:

 Just declare BREXIT.  A cold hard BREXIT.  Then and only then will we be in position to establish ongoing relationships with the corrupt undemocratic European Commission without being blackmailed by it. To make the restoration of our independence conditional on the European Commission agreeing to the terms of our release is simply crazy. 

As for Scotland, to hell with what approx 10% of the population of the UK are "demanding". They can go whistle.  They are a part of the UK as a whole. End of.

Does it not occur to you that a majority of the population in Scotland may view the Government sitting in Westminster as being corrupt and undemocratic and that perhaps the population of Scotland would like the right to determine their own trading relationships, border controls, etc etc as a sovereign nation free from the control of Westminster?

Just because the United Kingdom has existed for longer that the EU does not mean that it is any better (or worse).  It is still a Union of three (and a bit) nations and whilst they broadly share the same values and beliefs there are also differences.

I do not understand how a Brexit supporter cannot understand why a Scottish Nationalist would want independence from the UK.  Am I missing something here?

You also continue to ignore the situation in Northern Ireland which seems to be a blind spot for many brexit supporters.  I feel that it is a case of out of sight, out of mind with Northern Ireland.  That is a far more complex problem to resolve than Scotland.