manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 44 minutes ago, Rog said: There is the world of difference between what some people in the Conservative Party may or may not have said and what BoJo did Thus far your accusations have focussed on him. Didn't Boris Johnson publicly say that the UK would leave the EU by the 31st October 2019 and what exactly happened there? Yes, I know you will whinge about remainers but even he must have realised that the maths did not stack up so why make such a stupid and un-deliverable statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Rog said: I couldn't care much less about Scotland or what the spoiled Scots do or don't want. As for ULSTER my hope is that part of the UK will see the advantages of UK membership. Part of the U.K. will see those advantages. It’s the part called England (minus London and Merseyside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 43 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Didn't Boris Johnson publicly say that the UK would leave the EU by the 31st October 2019 and what exactly happened there? Yes, I know you will whinge about remainers but even he must have realised that the maths did not stack up so why make such a stupid and un-deliverable statement? Oh come on, had it not been for the traitorous members of the HoC it would have taken place. Nothing to do with numbers everything to do with shiteaters ignoring democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: No, it's not. The plan is to retain 19,000 and recruit 31,000. Retention of existing staff is very different to recruiting additional staff. We both know that retaining those 19,000 nurses that are expected to leave is going to be near impossible. How many of those 19,000 are approaching retirement? How many are planning due to the working conditions and pressure? How many are planning to leave to return to their country of origin? If Johnson does not address the underlying reasons, and I see no evidence that he will, then that 19,000 figure is going to be near impossible. I will concede that it is not a lie, the way it was presented was a mis-truth designed to grab headlines. Nonsense. It was deliberately twisted by newspapers with an anti-brexit readership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rog said: Nonsense. It was deliberately twisted by newspapers with an anti-brexit readership. Taken from the Conservative Party Manifesto without any media involvement. Now where does it mention anything about 19,000 of those nurses already being in the NHS?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Or does it mention them here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Taken from the Conservative Party Manifesto without any media involvement. Now where does it mention anything about 19,000 of those nurses already being in the NHS?? Why should it? It sets out the plan. The period of this objective hasn't even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Rog said: There is the world of difference between what some people in the Conservative Party may or may not have said and what BoJo did Thus far your accusations have focused on him. He leads, they follow. This isn't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, Rog said: Why should it? It sets out the plan. The period of this objective hasn't even started. It is the Conservative Party Manifesto from the General Election in which they won a significant majority of seats. It specifically states "50,000 new nurses" but when the party were challenged on that figure it emerged they really mean 31,000 new nurses. The other 19,000 aren't new at all and are simply a retention target. You will notice that I don't refer to the pledge of 20,000 new police officers. Why? Well because they will actually be an increase on current numbers and don't include already serving officers. Others may point out that the Tory Government has cut police officers by 21,000 and therefore we have not actually even returned to previous levels but that is a different argument to the one around the nurses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: It is the Conservative Party Manifesto from the General Election in which they won a significant majority of seats. It specifically states "50,000 new nurses" but when the party were challenged on that figure it emerged they really mean 31,000 new nurses. The other 19,000 aren't new at all and are simply a retention target. You will notice that I don't refer to the pledge of 20,000 new police officers. Why? Well because they will actually be an increase on current numbers and don't include already serving officers. Others may point out that the Tory Government has cut police officers by 21,000 and therefore we have not actually even returned to previous levels but that is a different argument to the one around the nurses. I'm afraid you're letting our prejudice distort your comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: It specifically states "50,000 new nurses" In the bits you posted it says ‘more’ not ‘new’. I agree with you though. Not a cat in hell’s chance of persuading 19000 not to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, wrighty said: In the bits you posted it says ‘more’ not ‘new’. I agree with you though. Not a cat in hell’s chance of persuading 19000 not to go. If you have 19,000 nurses and I promises you 50,000 more, how many nurses will you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, wrighty said: In the bits you posted it says ‘more’ not ‘new’. I agree with you though. Not a cat in hell’s chance of persuading 19000 not to go. A GP had this to say about totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson: You may be forgiven for thinking this election began and ended with three words: “Get Brexit done”. But as a GP, I was left wondering: what does the Tory majority mean for the future of our NHS? Somewhat buried in election coverage was the news this week of the longest A&E waiting times since records began – 12-hour trolley waits are five times what they were in 2012. This on top of the worst cancer referral and treatment waiting times on record. It’s been repeated so many times it’s almost lost its meaning, but the NHS is in crisis. The new Conservative government might pretend this is their inheritance, rather than their fault. But with the current cabinet and PM having voted for every budget and NHS policy in the last decade, they are squarely responsible for this situation. The Tories grabbed headlines with promises of 50 million more GP appointments and 6,000 more GPs. For me, these words rang particularly hollow; we’ve heard them before. In 2015, 5,000 more GPs were promised by 2020. Today, 1,608 fewer full-time GPs are now working than in 2015. It takes 10 years to train a GP, so it is very unclear where these new colleagues of mine will come from; two in three EU doctors are considering leaving the service, while nearly one in two GPs plan to retire in the next five years. For myself and others on the NHS frontline, the Tories’ promises are of no reassurance. We have witnessed first-hand the impact of nine years of austerity on our health service. Watching the campaign, we couldn’t understand the duplicity of politicians proposing to fix a system they have broken, and done nothing about for so long. What concerns me as a GP is that it has been written by the same people that created this crisis, people with a long track record of breaking their promises and a callous disregard for the consequences of doing so. Amen to that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 What actually matters - is will we as a country put our political prejudices aside and back the effort to improve the NHS or not? If you would rather support your political views than support improvement of the NHS then you are neither a Socialist nor a person of moral upstanding. What matters to you most? Improvement of the NHS for those in need or your political dogma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 28 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: What matters to you most? Improvement of the NHS for those in need or your political dogma? What matters most is a Government that is held to account on the promises and commitments it made in its manifesto. Some of those promises are blatantly misleading if not dishonest. Oh, and why do we now have unelected members of the House of Lords holding positions in the cabinet? I thought we were trying to get away from unelected people dictating what we should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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