manxman1980 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I won't disagree with you Rog but I would follow that up with an additional question. How reliant is the UK on foreign owned businesses in our key manufacturing, power, transport and defence industries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 52 minutes ago, Rog said: Recently? Cadbury a few years ago, GKN recently. 7 minutes ago, Rog said: Very few. The sell off started years ago. But that's the nature of business. The first priority must be delivering shareholder value. Everything must come after that. As a shareholder I have never invested with any objective other than a return on my investment. Therein lies the problem with shareholders. Henry Ford had the right idea, get rid of them and keep control. Truly big companies like BMW and Toyota still retain family ownership, Britain is a country obsessed with short term gain at the expense of long term calamity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I won't disagree with you Rog but I would follow that up with an additional question. How reliant is the UK on foreign owned countries in our key manufacturing, power, transport and defence industries? Assuming that you meant companies and not countries then hugely. Even our utilities up to and including sewage treatment plants. However most of the companies are multinational with no particular loyalty to any individual country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Max Power said: Cadbury a few years ago, GKN recently. Therein lies the problem with shareholders. Henry Ford had the right idea, get rid of them and keep control. Truly big companies like BMW and Toyota still retain family ownership, Britain is a country obsessed with short term gain at the expense of long term calamity! BMW AG is not privately owned. AG - Aktiengesellschaft - is the same as plc in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rog said: BMW AG is not privately owned. AG - Aktiengesellschaft - is the same as plc in the UK. The family have a controlling share though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: I won't disagree with you Rog but I would follow that up with an additional question. How reliant is the UK on foreign owned businesses in our key manufacturing, power, transport and defence industries? Oh very reliant indeed. The UK MOD even buys ejector seats from an obscure offshore company which is not UK tax registered and indeed is governed by a Parliament which claims to be the longest running independent Parliament in the world, is not in the EU, and meets, once a year in a tent! There is an argument that the UK MOD should withdraw from such risky / dodgy offshore business immediately, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 How very droll Manximus... The problem with your argument is that the place you are referring to is a crown dependency and has a relationship with the EU under Protocol 3. It is also part of the Common Travel Area. But, yea, otherwise well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Oh very reliant indeed. The UK MOD even buys ejector seats from an obscure offshore company which is not UK tax registered and indeed is governed by a Parliament which claims to be the longest running independent Parliament in the world, is not in the EU, and meets, once a year in a tent! There is an argument that the UK MOD should withdraw from such risky / dodgy offshore business immediately, what do you think? Considering that the manufacturing business is based in the UK where it is actually manufactured is largely unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 23 hours ago, manxman1980 said: How very droll Manximus... The problem with your argument is that the place you are referring to is a crown dependency and has a relationship with the EU under Protocol 3. It is also part of the Common Travel Area. But, yea, otherwise well done. If the IOM where to be in the EU (As you claim) - Protocol would not need to exist - agreed? Instead of trying to tell me how much the IOM DOES comply with EU rules, regulations, beliefs, aspirations, immigration, - tell me the opposite! Tell me why IOM needs Protocol 3 at all? Tell me why IOM does not comply, and therefore needs Protocol 3 to exist? If you (IOM) are so in love with the EU - Why will you not fully commit? Why is there a need for Protocol 3 in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Let's keep this real. It's not the Westminster government that is selling off a government provided service, it's the government approving the sale of a part of a private company to a US private equity group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Interesting trend in recent years of the MOD using foreign suppliers of technology (USA), switching to foreign kit (USA) or building kit here based on foreign tech (USA). Apache gunships instead of Lynx, M-16/M4 variants instead of SA80, etc, etc All marching towards becoming the aircraft carrier USS UK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Economies of scale. And buying proven, properly developed equipment first time. It took 15+ years to sort out the SA80's failings. How many billions did they waste trying to turn Nimrod into AWACS? They couldn't even get Army boots right. There's been billions upon billions of pounds squandered by the UK MOD over the decades because of this obsession with trying to build our own which then turn out to be completely impractical or laden with problems. When far better stuff accepted as the standard everywhere else was available "off the shelf" at a far more competitive price. With the additional benefit of being NATO compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Economies of scale. And buying proven, properly developed equipment first time. It took 15+ years to sort out the SA80's failings. How many billions did they waste trying to turn Nimrod into AWACS? They couldn't even get Army boots right. There's been billions upon billions of pounds squandered by the UK MOD over the decades because of this obsession with trying to build our own which then turn out to be completely impractical or laden with problems. When far better stuff accepted as the standard everywhere else was available "off the shelf" at a far more competitive price. With the additional benefit of being NATO compliant. The problem with buying off the shelf from over seas is that you are beholden to that nation in terms of support and supplies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: The problem with buying off the shelf from over seas is that you are beholden to that nation in terms of support and supplies. As long as they're allies within the NATO umbrella why should that be a problem? Operationally it's far better to be equipped with reliable, proven equipment than some piece of Heath-Robinson shite cobbled together in a British shed at huge waste of money in the name of national pride. Especially when lives are on the line. How many lives were squandered in Iraq while the MOD pretended that Land Rovers could be made IED-proof? Before they bought Mastiffs and Ridgebacks off the shelf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Just now, Non-Believer said: As long as they're allies within the NATO umbrella why should that be a problem? Because they might not always be allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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