Douglas Corpy Houses

[Slim]

I'm not suggesting families go live in flats.

[FCMR]

I'm not suggesting families go live in flats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I Know that but thats the problem a shortage of houses for families of low income.

[Alex]

I suspect that's a more widespread problem than just here, if young people have children before they can afford to how do they think they can afford to buy a house FFS?

 

Fair enough accidents happen etc, but in general young people should not expect the government (us) to house and clothe them if they can't forward plan for themselves...

 

I agree with slim about housing, the property is there it's just that some people seem to think they should be able to afford the house of their dreams straight away rather than buying smaller now then trading up later.

[kellyiom]

yep, it's rife in peel as well; it's so unfair and uneven how these rules are applied; once you're in one, you're free to do what you want and they can't get you out; means testing is the only way forward

[dangerboy]

I wonder how much of the housing problems on the isle of man are because the youth of today havent heard of contraception!!

[ButterflyMaiden]

yep, it's rife in peel as well; it's so unfair and uneven how these rules are applied; once you're in one, you're free to do what you want and they can't get you out; means testing is the only way forward

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

People do have the right to basic levels of privacy. That would reasonably include the right not to be continually harassed by Government.

A more reasonable approach might be a total overhaul of the mish mash of subsidies, benefits and grants that currently make up housing policy in the Island.

One approach, proposed some years ago by various socialist parties in the UK, would scrap all building subsidies, mortgage tax breaks, grants for repairs, etc, and replace them with a universal housing benefit payable to individuals. This approach, it was argued, would allow housing athorities to charge economic rents, would assist private renters, and remove the absurdity which offers people a tax break to make a capital gain. (i.e mortgage tax relief). Everyone would receive the sam.e level of support.

People who rent houses, as opposed to those who purchase houses, are at a great disadvantage. This is the case no matter who they rent from, be it a public housing authority or a private landlord.... do the calculations yourself on a simple spreadsheet model. This was recognised in the UK until quite recently and home owners were subject to a tax which sought to redistribute some of this personal advantage. I cant remember exactly when this particular tax was scrapped ..but it was a Tory Govt (possibly McMillan ?) in a desperate attempt to boost the housing market.

So lets not start vicitim blaming by pointing at individuals who rent council houses.

Much more constructive to lobby for improvements which would result in improvements for the majority of people ... that of course may result in other people, myself included, having to give up some of the advantages they currently enjoy.

[Gladys]

Ooh I must be feeling very bolshi tonight, but I have just hit upon another thread that makes my hackles stand on end! When I came back to the Island three years ago, I rented a house until I found somewhere suitable for us to buy. The intermediary (I never met the landlord) showed me around the house and he mentioned something like "never a weekend off" and I asked why. He replied because the owner has 30 [something] houses all rented out". Anyway, I took the house on a six month lease and just before the lease expired I received a letter saying the lease would not be renewed as the house was for sale, but if I wanted to I could put in an offer. Fine, I thought, we were already living there, it was close to my mother so why not? I asked the price and it was probably 10,000 over the proper value and said I wouldn't take it any further. Then familiar faces were asking "have you had a letter?". These were people who had been renting for years, suddenly turfed out and couldn't get a mortgage to buy, but they had paid far more in rent over the years.

 

I found somehwere to buy quite close (at 7,000 less than the asking price of the rented house) and am very happy with it, but the house I rented stayed empty for almost a year before it was sold; obviously waiting for the market to reach expectations! Please do not tell me there is no market manipulation!

[Frances]

The UK tax was IIRC schedule E - owner occupiers were taxed on a nominal rental that could have been received if they rented the house out - mortgage relief was then allowed as an offset against this potential rental - It must be at least 40 years since that schedule was removed but, as said, the mortgage relief was continued to encourage home ownership - as I'm no longer a mortgage payer I can't recall if the mortgage relief has now gone or was capped.

It is the inflation in house prices, caused by shortage in many areas, that has really tipped the scales for owners - elsewhere in Europe long term rental is much more common.

[rallybug]

A 70 grand flat, of which there's tonnes for sale, will cost you £400 a month mortgage. You'll also get mortgage relief from your tax bill on top of that, and if you're a first time buyer on low earnings the government will give you a bunch of money towards the purchase price.

 

You really can't afford that?

 

People bleat about house prices, and some of it's valid, but people tend to forget that the average salary has gone up a lot, and interest rates have come down, it can be affordable.

 

But then again, peole also expect to drive around in a new suberu, have two holidays a year, a mobile phone, go out every weekend, etc etc.

 

I recon public housing should be for those who can't earn enough to buy/rent, not those that wont.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

£70k flat, need mortgage of £65k (for example) - to get that mortgage you need to be earning £16,250 at the normal single person's 4x multiplier. I'd imagine there's plenty of younger peole not earning that. Easier for joint applicants to get the mortgage, but what size would a £70k flat be for a couple?

[BigDave]

People do have the right to basic levels of privacy. That would reasonably include the right not to be continually harassed by Government.

Does that include my right to privacy when it comes to not discosing my earnings to the tax office?

 

Nobody particularily likes the big brother approach in matters like this, but how can you possibly ascertain whether someone needs state support or not? Maintain the right to privacy and all the ones who take the mickey will just hide behind it.

 

Personally, if I needed a council house I would not have any problems with disclosing my income to prove I needed it. The only people I can think of who would have a problem disclosing their earnings are the ones who are not entitled to these benefits and are effectively stealing from other taxpayers (including those on benefits who also pay tax - this is not a discriminatory post!) and depriving others who need cheap housing more.

[Alex]

£70k flat, need mortgage of £65k (for example) - to get that mortgage you need to be earning £16,250 at the normal single person's 4x multiplier.  I'd imagine there's plenty of younger peole not earning that.  Easier for joint applicants to get the mortgage, but what size would a £70k flat be for a couple?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you're forgetting the first time buyers grants and loans aready available from the government for Manx people.

If someone is earning less than 16k, then they are unlikely to be able to afford to buy on their own, agreed. But that's natural, people have to work to afford a house - it's the biggest purchase you'll ever make, save for a few years for the deposit, work your way up in your job, that's the way it has always been, why does this generation think they should be entitled to everything right now and for the very minimum of work?

[Slim]

£70k flat, need mortgage of £65k (for example) - to get that mortgage you need to be earning £16,250 at the normal single person's 4x multiplier.  I'd imagine there's plenty of younger peole not earning that.  Easier for joint applicants to get the mortgage, but what size would a £70k flat be for a couple?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

16k isn't that far away from a starting salary for a lot of people these days. As someone else said, if you fall short, you can get a grant for up to 20k of the price.

 

There's plenty of good sized 70k flats. How about the one I've got for sale:

http://www.manxflat.com/

 

I bought it when I was single, my 2nd job, aged 21. I still think it's affordable for someone aged 21 in their 2nd job. People aren't exactly beating my door down to buy it though, as everyone wants shiny new apartments on douglas prom with car parking and plasma tellies.

[kellyiom]

yep, it's rife in peel as well; it's so unfair and uneven how these rules are applied; once you're in one, you're free to do what you want and they can't get you out; means testing is the only way forward

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

People do have the right to basic levels of privacy. That would reasonably include the right not to be continually harassed by Government.

A more reasonable approach might be a total overhaul of the mish mash of subsidies, benefits and grants that currently make up housing policy in the Island.

One approach, proposed some years ago by various socialist parties in the UK, would scrap all building subsidies, mortgage tax breaks, grants for repairs, etc, and replace them with a universal housing benefit payable to individuals. This approach, it was argued, would allow housing athorities to charge economic rents, would assist private renters, and remove the absurdity which offers people a tax break to make a capital gain. (i.e mortgage tax relief). Everyone would receive the sam.e level of support.

People who rent houses, as opposed to those who purchase houses, are at a great disadvantage. This is the case no matter who they rent from, be it a public housing authority or a private landlord.... do the calculations yourself on a simple spreadsheet model. This was recognised in the UK until quite recently and home owners were subject to a tax which sought to redistribute some of this personal advantage. I cant remember exactly when this particular tax was scrapped ..but it was a Tory Govt (possibly McMillan ?) in a desperate attempt to boost the housing market.

So lets not start vicitim blaming by pointing at individuals who rent council houses.

Much more constructive to lobby for improvements which would result in improvements for the majority of people ... that of course may result in other people, myself included, having to give up some of the advantages they currently enjoy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry but I just don't see how you can say that people who rent houses even from public housing authorities are at a disadvantage and I'd really like to see this spreadsheet model. Public housing here is subsidised to such an extent probably around only 25% of the normal market value of a similar property. Bear in mind maintenance and interest and so on when calculating total returns...were all familiar with the sort of thing where you have a mortgage of £100k and the total sum paid is around £200k once you take it into account. If you're only paying 40 quid a week on corpy rent then your disposable income is going to be so much better than a private owner with only a minor incremental increase in income. House prices have risen of course but that is the payoff when you buy a house and in effect you need to be rewarded for putting your capital at risk in such an asset. I'd bet that in terms of disposable income there are more people struggling privately than those in corpy houses. I'd also like to see it dealt with by taking into account of rental values per square foot, comparing the corpy house size by reference to the private market and then issuing a benefit related to the size of the disposable income. Like Slim and Big Dave have said, the simple answer is that affordability is a smokescreen; the market needs smaller participants to keep the system flowing, just like in the cash market; we need the liquidity the pennies and two ps provide and not just the pounds or fivers. People just want everything at once and like the easy way out..

[Fleur]

How about the one I've got for sale:

http://www.manxflat.com/

What an excellent domain name.

[Slim]

ta