AcousticallyChallenged Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Attila said: Same, I think Government should be as less involved as it can in peoples’ private affairs. However, there is a valid argument to keep a record of how many trans people there actually are, there are layers of bureaucracy for so many facets of life and it’s somewhat inevitable. The census questions on this subject won’t be empirical as they were optional. I think the hysteria around female spaces being invaded has been blown out of proportion, but do I have sympathy for those who are growing frustrated with changing language. When NHS trusts are pushing to eradicate words such as ‘Mother’ and ‘breastfeeding’ and replace them with ‘Parent who has given birth’ and ‘chestfeeding’ it makes me feel a little sad, and that female biological functions seem to matter less. I can’t imagine that most trans men would mind, it seems to a very noisy woke minority who care about these things. The document setting out terms like chest feeding highlights that it is around the appropriate use of language for the patient themselves. Nobody is detracting from a woman identifying as a mother who breast feeds. Or trying to replace said language. Just, in the off chance a bloke with a uterus has a baby, he might not want to be called Mum. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chestfeeding-breastfeeding/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: If you were a bloke and now you're a bird then you shouldn't be expecting to be a professional sportswoman. That's all there is to it. Do something else. What about the female athletes born female who naturally have testosterone levels much higher than normal because of medical conditions? I linked a paper earlier that suggested anything between 10-20% of elite athletes shared the conditions in question, and were liable to have testosterone levels much higher than normal. It was a marked enough difference that now, female athletes can be disqualified if that level is too high. Though that in itself is very controversial. https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/15/iaaf-regulations-for-female-athletes-with-high-testosterone/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: What about the female athletes born female who naturally have testosterone levels much higher than normal because of medical conditions? I linked a paper earlier that suggested anything between 10-20% of elite athletes shared the conditions in question, and were liable to have testosterone levels much higher than normal. It was a marked enough difference that now, female athletes can be disqualified if that level is too high. Though that in itself is very controversial. https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/15/iaaf-regulations-for-female-athletes-with-high-testosterone/ Like Caster Semenya? Pretty bad the way they've treated her. They changed the rules to target the events she competed in and ordered her to take drugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 8 hours ago, TheTeapot said: Like Caster Semenya? Pretty bad the way they've treated her. They changed the rules to target the events she competed in and ordered her to take drugs. Caster Semenya is an anagram of 'yes, a secret man'. Coincidence? 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, wrighty said: Caster Semenya is an anagram of 'yes, a secret man'. Coincidence? There's plenty in Ramsey pubs.... 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Couple of things to clear up… Firstly on the subject of hormones. You loose on average 30-40% of your pre hormone muscle mass with your hormone range becoming in line with those of cis females. Hormones change quite a lot about your body. Bladder shrinks, bone density changes, skin softens, pheromones change etc etc. The changes are quite dramatic really. A couple of minutes searching google would give you this information and more. I could write for hours on the subject of hormones, conditions and why every single person on the earth is in some way intersex. It really is a fascinating subject. Males even have very visible remains of a proto vagina from early on in foetus development. But that is a discussion for another day. On the subject of competing. Out of all the trans women competing in sports at the minute there really aren’t all that many, maybe one or two, that are actually managing to out compete their female counterparts. It is that one or two that the newspapers and right wing nut jobs focus on and hype up to give the impression that it is ALL trans competitors, when it fact it is a very small minority. In the past four to five years that certain American states have legally allowed trans female students to compete in female sports, there has not been one recorded that has managed to outcompete their cis female competitors. Cis men who want to feel superior and cis females who feel inferior try to define this argument in a super basic way by dumbing it down to a concept of male vs female. It is so much more complicated than that. To put it simply for the sake of not writing an entire essay. You have to consider the genetics of those more pre disposed and less pre disposed towards certain types of activity and analyse how one sex competes against not only their own sex but all of the other known four sexes. And then take into account how hormones affect the bodies of trans female athletes. The end result is inconclusive. No survey has ever found that trans females have any significant advantage when it comes to competing in cis female sports. This notion comes from a huge misunderstanding of the science and the simplification that is peddled of “man body is stronger”. I challenge any male on this forum to take on a serious group of cis female athletes and beat them in their chosen sport. Hint: You won’t. Who gives a toss. Let people be happy and stop worrying about things that don’t concern you. Let’s look at the realism of life for a second. This is it, this is your shot at existence. Once its over, you have a pretty good chance that there isn’t anything further. Just a bleak whole load of nothingness. Why spend it worrying about all of these trivial things that really have no effect on your life at all and really cause no problem except the one you are creating for yourself. Live life for f-s sake. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/work-to-improve-lgbtqia-health-services-underway/ It would be nice if this member of the DHSC focussed more on a better health service for all. It's not very good really is it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Apple said: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/work-to-improve-lgbtqia-health-services-underway/ It would be nice if this member of the DHSC focussed more on a better health service for all. It's not very good really is it. So, would it be ok if they focussed on improving women’s services, oncology services, mental health services, services for older people, services for the disabled, end of life care? But not services to LGBT? Sounds like you’re suffering from casual homophobia. Sometimes a push in a specific service area, and then another, and another, is needed rather than an overall general woolly hope to improve everything at once. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Maybe we should also focus on BAME health and social care services as well, but that doesn't carry enough votes yet does it. This announcement is pure electioneering and I suspect you are aware of that. The state of our health and. social care services is largely down to the politicians who have been "running it" for the last 5 years. I would not trust the same lot to lead it again, Covid or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Apple said: Maybe we should also focus on BAME health and social care services as well, but that doesn't carry enough votes yet does it. This announcement is pure electioneering and I suspect you are aware of that. The state of our health and. social care services is largely down to the politicians who have been "running it" for the last 5 years. I would not trust the same lot to lead it again, Covid or not. I’m commenting on your response Apple. I suspect there are as many BAME electors as LGBT electors. We aren’t the homogenous Masonic White Island we once were. I don’t think it’s electioneering at all. There aren’t enough LGBT votes. Incremental change in specific areas where there are shortfalls is not a bad strategy. It’s focussed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Sounds like you’re suffering from casual homophobia Thats not a personal criticism I recognise John and one I think is ill judged. Edited June 30, 2021 by Apple 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 On a happier note. Methodists vote to allow LGBT marriages in church. 254 to 46. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/30/methodist-church-allows-same-sex-marriage-after-vote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, John Wright said: I suspect there are as many BAME electors as LGBT electors. I suspect not but recognise I have no evidence to back that up. Happy for the methodists. Not a problem for me at all. This is Barber, who, as a few others did, sat on their hands in their ivory towers knowing the difficulties some staff were having during the "lets get rid of 'em" years but didn't do anything about it because she declared she might have to apply for a job back in the DHSC. People have short memories, especially for those trying to rewrite history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Wright said: I’m commenting on your response Apple. I suspect there are as many BAME electors as LGBT electors. We aren’t the homogenous Masonic White Island we once were. I don’t think it’s electioneering at all. There aren’t enough LGBT votes. Incremental change in specific areas where there are shortfalls is not a bad strategy. It’s focussed. I don't think only members of the BAME or LGBT community would be influenced. There are many people not in those groups who support them and who may be swayed by positive attitudes towards them displayed by candidates. Edited June 30, 2021 by Gladys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 There is no time like an election to stand up for principles not mentioned before. She's been in that Department for 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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