Isle of Pride

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Well  to be fair given the apology (adequate or not) and the invitation by the organisers, it probably want a masterpiece of PR.

It wasn't related to the apology, nor the actions the apology was for.

[Numbnuts]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:43 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Could you explain why £84 a week nearly killed you?

Were you not entitled to some sort of accommodation allowance?

Serious question

Fortunately for me I have never found myself in this position. But I would like to understand the ins and  outs.

 

 

Theres two levels of incapacity. Short term was around £84 and long term was around £108 a week. You could claim a further amount from income support to take it up to £152 a week which was the set amount they said you could live on. But any income , I had a small annunity monthly , which would go against that £152.  Basically that was your lot but not sure about what help was available for morgages etc as luckily I was mortgage free. Its a massive struggle if you live alone though. 

[Gladys]

15 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It wasn't related to the apology, nor the actions the apology was for.

Perhaps an explanation would have helped?

[HeliX]

Just now, Gladys said:

Perhaps an explanation would have helped?

It was linked a few pages back I think? Here is Fenella Beach's statement anyway, from https://www.facebook.com/fenellabeachdrag

Quote

On Saturday 13th August at Isle of Pride we made the choice to hold protest signs. Specifically, we voiced our opinion that uniformed police officers should not be at Pride. As we discussed on the day, we would like to stress that these views are our own, and only representative of the two of us.

This is not an apology. We have a right, and indeed an obligation, to protest ー especially about an issue that affects our community so deeply.

We want to clarify that our signs had nothing to do with the statement made recently by the Isle of Man Constabulary; rather, what we wrote was in reference to the history and the meaning of Pride. It must never be forgotten that the first Pride was a riot against police violence. Queer and specifically trans people were the subject of harrassment, discrimination, violence, rape and murder at the hands of the police. Without queer people fighting back against this, we wouldn’t have Pride in the first place. Pride is not a party: it has always been and will continue to be a protest.

Police do not belong at Pride on the Isle of Man. Police do not belong at Pride anywhere. This shouldn’t be a controversial statement. Many queer and especially trans people do not feel safe around police officers. This is not just historical: it is firmly and frighteningly current.

Together we’ve faced street harassment both in and out of drag too many times to count. We have had slurs shouted at us through car windows. We have been filmed and laughed at just walking down the road. The fact that neither of us have considered calling the police about this speaks volumes about our community’s scepticism and outright fear of the institution.

Since our protest we have both received onslaughts of homophobia, transphobia, and general hatred. We are two openly queer transgender people, and simply existing on this island comes with fears and experiences that a cis straight person would never understand. The board of Isle of Pride is predominantly cisgender and heterosexual, so they should not speak for a community that they do not represent. To not only allow but invite and welcome uniformed officers to pride is to completely disregard the queer history and activism that brought us here today.

Since Saturday, we have also received some messages of support and love from our community, and we thank everyone who reached out. To any queer person or trans person who fears the police: we hear you, we stand with you, and we love you.

We do not regret any part of our protest, and we stand firm in our belief that police have no place at Pride. We will never be sorry for that. Protecting our community will always be more important than any backlash we could receive. As trans people our entire existence is a political statement:

“Remember this. Our whole lives. We are protest” ーJoelle Taylor

As queer trans drag artists, everything we do is for our community. We will always put that first.

All our love,

Nona Binary (Ashton Gibson) and Fenella Beach

 

[Passing Time]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It was linked a few pages back I think? Here is Fenella Beach's statement anyway, from https://www.facebook.com/fenellabeachdrag

 

What a load of cobblers. Trying to back peddle and making themselves look more stupid.

[HeliX]

Just now, Passing Time said:

What a load of cobblers. Trying to back peddle and making themselves look more stupid.

A convincing counter argument, to be sure.

[Wavey Davey]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

It must never be forgotten that the first Pride was a riot against police violence. Queer and specifically trans people were the subject of harrassment, discrimination, violence, rape and murder at the hands of the police. 

But that’s .. Err .. complete shite 

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, Passing Time said:

What a load of cobblers. Trying to back peddle and making themselves look more stupid.

If that were possible.

[John Wright]

11 hours ago, Wavey Davey said:

But that’s .. Err .. complete shite 

 

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

If that were possible.

They’re young, a bit idealistic and maybe don’t have the experience to articulate well. But I don’t disapprove. They’ve every right to protest.

I do ask just what is the LGBTQIA+ mandate of the Isle of Pride Committee. I do ask who, and how widely,  they consulted about accepting the police apology or the community police presence.

Police could have 4 different types of presence, as I see it.

1. individual officers, gay or otherwise, in their personal capacity. Not in uniform. Enjoying a day out.

2. officers actually policing the event, as required and based on resources and what else needed policing.

These two would be the same for the Royal Show, same date. No objection to either.

3. official LGBTQIA+ Police float, along with others from lawyers, bankers, steam packet, insurers, young farmers, firemen, nurses & medics, etc, if there was that type of parade event ( and they were doing it in their own time )

This third option is more contentious. Causes issues at Pride events and Paddy day marches all over the world. But to be truly inclusive.

4. a community police presence to show their face. Make community ties.

This is what the police say they were doing, engaging, building trust. Personally I don’t think it works, it’s actual experience when you’ve been abused, suffered a homophobic or transphobic rant or beaten up. The protesters were saying they’ve had experience and it hasn’t been good.

Was there a community police presence at the Royal doing outreach to farmers? If not, why not? Was it just politically driven tokenism? Truth is I don’t know. But the question is worth asking as is the protest to highlight that not everything in the garden is rosy.

 

[Wavey Davey]

17 minutes ago, John Wright said:

They’re young, a bit idealistic and maybe don’t have the experience to articulate well. But I don’t disapprove. They’ve every right to protest.

That’s all well and good but on Facebook one of them was quoted as saying: 

“It must never be forgotten that the first Pride was a riot against police violence. Queer and specifically trans people were the subject of harrassment, discrimination, violence, rape and murder at the hands of the police.”

Its nonsense for lots of reasons in particular he’s getting the Stonewall riots mixed up with the first Pride event which seems to have been a fairly lame event which came afterwards and secondly when were the police going round raping trans people at Pride events? He just comes across as a clueless drama Queen. 

[Passing Time]

18 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 

They’re young, a bit idealistic and maybe don’t have the experience to articulate well. But I don’t disapprove. They’ve every right to protest.

I do ask just what is the LGBTQIA+ mandate of the Isle of Pride Committee. I do ask who, and how widely,  they consulted about accepting the police apology or the community police presence.

Police could have 4 different types of presence, as I see it.

1. individual officers, gay or otherwise, in their personal capacity. Not in uniform. Enjoying a day out.

2. officers actually policing the event, as required and based on resources and what else needed policing.

These two would be the same for the Royal Show, same date. No objection to either.

3. official LGBTQIA+ Police float, along with others from lawyers, bankers, steam packet, insurers, young farmers, firemen, nurses & medics, etc, if there was that type of parade event ( and they were doing it in their own time )

This third option is more contentious. Causes issues at Pride events and Paddy day marches all over the world. But to be truly inclusive.

4. a community police presence to show their face. Make community ties.

This is what the police say they were doing, engaging, building trust. Personally I don’t think it works, it’s actual experience when you’ve been abused, suffered a homophobic or transphobic rant or beaten up. The protesters were saying they’ve had experience and it hasn’t been good.

Was there a community police presence at the Royal doing outreach to farmers? If not, why not? Was it just politically driven tokenism? Truth is I don’t know. But the question is worth asking as is the protest to highlight that not everything in the garden is rosy.

 

John, you know full well that these were a pair of attention seekers jumping on the bandwagon. Did you see any of those that are old enough to have been caught up in those terrible times protesting? They'd have been better thought of had they embraced the police presence. They chose the alternative and it has spectacularly backfired on them

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, Wavey Davey said:

That’s all well and good but on Facebook one of them was quoted as saying: 

“It must never be forgotten that the first Pride was a riot against police violence. Queer and specifically trans people were the subject of harrassment, discrimination, violence, rape and murder at the hands of the police.”

Its nonsense for lots of reasons in particular he’s getting the Stonewall riots mixed up with the first Pride event which seems to have been a fairly lame event which came afterwards and secondly when were the police going round raping trans people at Pride events? He just comes across as a clueless drama Queen. 

But Stonewall was the genesis of subsequent prides. And I went on the Pride marches in London in the early 80's and there was a lot of anger and fear.

Did he/she/they say the raped happened at Pride. 

It's not so long ago I was on duty advocate call out at the police hq and the custody officer called me over and "warned" me that the client was wearing make up but was a man. A young person so young they needed an appropriate adult.

Im sure the officer thought they were being helpful. It felt to me that there was an underlying snigger.

Its up to me and client to establish how they identify and what pronouns to use. And to ensure their rights as a trans person, if that's what they are, are observed alongside their human rights generally and their rights under the Police Powers & Procedures Act
 

 

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

John, you know full well that these were a pair of attention seekers jumping on the bandwagon. Did you see any of those that are old enough to have been caught up in those terrible times protesting? They'd have been better thought of had they embraced the police presence. They chose the alternative and it has spectacularly backfired on them

I just don't agree. I've set out my reasoning in the post you quote. Instead of attacking them why not analyse and debate the issues.

I wasn't there. I don't think it's backfired just because older white cisgendered men object.

There's still a lot of gay, and even more trans prejudice out there on the Island.

[The Voice of Reason]

29 minutes ago, John Wright said:

There's still a lot of gay, and even more trans prejudice out there on the Island.

There’s not many that would deny that.

But to instill a fear of the police into impressionable young minds and demonise them by your words and actions ( whether intended or not) is not the way forward.

Edited August 27, 2022 by The Voice of Reason
Substituting “demonise” for original phrase as more suitable

[Wavey Davey]

36 minutes ago, John Wright said:

But Stonewall was the genesis of subsequent prides. And I went on the Pride marches in London in the early 80's and there was a lot of anger and fear.

Did he/she/they say the raped happened at Pride. 

It's not so long ago I was on duty advocate call out at the police hq and the custody officer called me over and "warned" me that the client was wearing make up but was a man. A young person so young they needed an appropriate adult.

Im sure the officer thought they were being helpful. It felt to me that there was an underlying snigger.

Its up to me and client to establish how they identify and what pronouns to use. And to ensure their rights as a trans person, if that's what they are, are observed alongside their human rights generally and their rights under the Police Powers & Procedures Act

The full quote is reproduced above by Helix. Yes he suggests that the police have gone round raping people. It’s all attention seeking hyperbole which does little to get them taken seriously.

Yes it’s clearly wrong having officers snigger at people who are in custody. But I’m sure they do it to lots of people not just men they happen to find in make up. There has been a lot of misogyny displayed by the police too. Should that have them being banned from policing womens football matches? It’s very odd that people who demand inclusivity from everyone else want certain groups of people banned from their events.