Passing Time Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, BriT said: Interesting in that context. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1661323/row-twitter-police-kick-lesbians-out-cardiff-pride-march Arguing among themselves and we think we have the answers... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 14 hours ago, quilp said: Anyone remember this insufferable piece of garbage..? Thank fuck he's disappeared from public life... we were doing fine until you reminded us... thanks for that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOR Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 13 hours ago, HeliX said: What if they're not in the 9.4% of trans people who are straight? It's a nice story in an attempt to back up your point which has absolutely no grounding in reality, but not a very good deflection from the facts. To give your post an air of authority, your use of a percentage figure to a decimal place destroys your own argument. How can you or anybody be so sure of such a thing to such high accuracy. Please tell me you got the figure off Wiki. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, Passing Time said: we were doing fine until you reminded us... thanks for that Had to. If it embarrasses him that the video is momentarily back in circulation then all the better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, quilp said: Had to. If it embarrasses him that the video is momentarily back in circulation then all the better. For him to be embarrassed he would need intelligence. Thats debatable. As with many other ex politicos, they are hardly going to admit their shortcomings, and apologise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOR Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, quilp said: Had to. If it embarrasses him that the video is momentarily back in circulation then all the better. It's worth noting that further to the House of Keys debate, John Houghton appears to have somewhat tempered his argument in this interview. He did regain his seat at the following general election. Anne Craine, who he mentions early on in the interview, was ousted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, AOR said: To give your post an air of authority, your use of a percentage figure to a decimal place destroys your own argument. How can you or anybody be so sure of such a thing to such high accuracy. Please tell me you got the figure off Wiki. They were responses from the UK Govt LGBT survey. But you're right, I should have said "9.4% of respondents." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, AOR said: It's worth noting that further to the House of Keys debate, John Houghton appears to have somewhat tempered his argument in this interview. He did regain his seat at the following general election. Anne Craine, who he mentions early on in the interview, was ousted. Well he did claim to be speaking for the majority of his constituents, "vast" may've been the descriptive he used. And at the time, 13 years ago, he possibly was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxfisherman Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 18 hours ago, HeliX said: Most people who are trans also fall into the LGB categories. As for not having to fear violence/direct abuse... One in five LGBT people (21 per cent) have experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months Two in five trans people (41 per cent) have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months For clarification, what do the terms "Gay/Lesbian" and "Heterosexual" mean in the context of trans respondents to the above survey? For example, in the above table does (1) a biological male (2) who identifies as female gender and (3) whose sexual preference is for a biological female partner, appear under "Gay/Lesbian" or under "Heterosexual"? If the former, does the below mean that 25.1% of transwomen have a sexual preference for relationships with women rather than men? Sexual orientation (Q7-9) by gender (trans) Gender (%) All (%) Trans woman Trans man Non-binary Gender identity Bisexual 35.7 31.7 29.5 31.6 Gay/Lesbian 25.1 19.8 22.9 22.8 Asexual† 2.7 4.2 7.3 5.4 Pansexual† 8.4 12.8 17.5 14.1 Queer† 0.5 4.7 6.7 4.6 Heterosexual 15.8 16.0 3.3 9.4 Other 3.2 4.8 9.1 6.6 Don't know 6.6 5.3 3.0 4.4 Prefer not to say 1.9 0.7 0.7 1.0 Respondents (rounded) 3740 3170 7410 14320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 18 hours ago, quilp said: Anyone remember this insufferable piece of garbage..? Thank fuck he's disappeared from public life... Well you say that. But he was honest where his point of view was, he wasn’t abusive or threatening. He didn’t invoke the threat of trans people rotting in hell or anything like. To me that wasn’t an insufferable piece of garbage. The man was just articulating what he felt, whether you agree with him or not. And I don’t. Have we really become so intolerant of non threatening free speech? Anyway back to the point in question re trans and gay people. First let me declare my interest. I am a heterosexual male. I can understand that people of the same sex fall in love and as such should be able to marry and have the same rights ( and responsibilities) as heterosexual couples. The transsexual issue I find more problematic. You are born male or female and you can choose to love either a male or female partner. No problem. But you are what you are born. I find it difficult to understand why you would think you are the opposite sex to that which you were born as. It’s not so simple as being gay or lesbian. I am concerned that people, especially youngsters are being coerced into thinking that they are transsexuals and taking steps such as medical manipulation of genitalia because of the current climate or trends, which are the subject of news or TV programmes. More problematic is the attachment to the LGBT agenda to include themselves within it. They should create their own pressure group ( as I do think they have a point to be made) rather than hanging on the coat tails of an movement that has worked hard to gain a lot of public approval. Johnny come latelies if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 19 hours ago, MrGarrison said: ... It always surprises me how the trans lobby are allowed to fit into the queer world and muddy the waters when really their ultimate aim is to fit in with societal norms regarding sexuality and gender and live a normal life in the gender they choose to be. I think you make an interesting point. I'm not entirely sure that "their ultimate aim" is what you suggest it is*, but I've always been a bit surprised by the ready acceptance of the idea that LGB interests are naturally aligned with trans interests. I'm not at all sure that they are always complementary with each another or even headed in the same direction. I know at least one lesbian (a former work colleague) who has been labelled as transphobic for not wholly endorsing the idea that lesbians should be accepting of sexual relationships with male-bodied transwomen. And, of course, it was the expression of perfectly legal gender-critical views like that (ie that lesbians might not wish to be in a sexual relationship with a person with a male body) that led to the barrister Allison Bailey suing her chambers for discrimination after she was accused of being transphobic. I think some trans issues are potentially quite damaging to the LGB movement. *I'm not sure if the results of the National LGBT Survey are consistent with trans respondents wanting "heteronormative" relationships rather than "Gay/Lesbian" roles? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 42 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said: For clarification, what do the terms "Gay/Lesbian" and "Heterosexual" mean in the context of trans respondents to the above survey? For example, in the above table does (1) a biological male (2) who identifies as female gender and (3) whose sexual preference is for a biological female partner, appear under "Gay/Lesbian" or under "Heterosexual"? If the former, does the below mean that 25.1% of transwomen have a sexual preference for relationships with women rather than men? Sexual orientation (Q7-9) by gender (trans) Gender (%) All (%) Trans woman Trans man Non-binary Gender identity Bisexual 35.7 31.7 29.5 31.6 Gay/Lesbian 25.1 19.8 22.9 22.8 Asexual† 2.7 4.2 7.3 5.4 Pansexual† 8.4 12.8 17.5 14.1 Queer† 0.5 4.7 6.7 4.6 Heterosexual 15.8 16.0 3.3 9.4 Other 3.2 4.8 9.1 6.6 Don't know 6.6 5.3 3.0 4.4 Prefer not to say 1.9 0.7 0.7 1.0 Respondents (rounded) 3740 3170 7410 14320 A transwoman who fancies women is a lesbian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, HeliX said: A transwoman who fancies women is a lesbian. So for the 22.9% of non-binary people who say they are "Gay/Lesbian", does this mean their preference is for other non-binary people and it isn't by reference to their birth sex? [Edit: Sorry - my question isn't very clear. If two non-binary people (one biological male and the other biological female) end up in a sexual relationship, is that a "Gay/Lesbian" relationship because they are both non-binary, or is it a "Heterosexual" one because they are different biological sexes?] Edited August 28, 2022 by Ghost Ship clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, HeliX said: A transwoman who fancies women is a lesbian. Eh! Im getting lost in all this. Fancy who you like, but think carefully before you have your bits resculptered is all I would say. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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