manxman1980 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, woolley said: When the chips are down nation states will always look to themselves. Which is why we and other countries will continue to neglect other areas whilst pumping billions into defence spending. Sad isn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Which is why we and other countries will continue to neglect other areas whilst pumping billions into defence spending. Sad isn't it? If you are idealistic. It's just an acceptance of the reality of human nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, woolley said: That's precisely what happened anyway. Individual countries were doing their own thing, shutting their own borders while Brussels was stamping its feet screaming you can't do that. It will be interesting to see what sort of EU emerges from all of this. When the chips are down nation states will always look to themselves. Yes, interesting to see what happens everywhere after this. What do you make of the EU's combined €1250bn Corona package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, woolley said: Individual countries were doing their own thing, shutting their own borders while Brussels was stamping its feet screaming you can't do that In reality, of course, Brussels wasn't stamping its feet screaming you can't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, pongo said: In reality, of course, Brussels wasn't stamping its feet screaming you can't do that. OK, perhaps not you can't do that, but certainly you shouldn't do that. It was scrambling in the wake of events to put in alternative EU wide measures. Initially it was in paralysis. As I said, the future will be interesting and I think this is recognised in the grovelling apology issued to Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Yes, interesting to see what happens everywhere after this. What do you make of the EU's combined €1250bn Corona package? Nothing really. Where's the money coming from? The EU doesn't have any of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, woolley said: Nothing really. Where's the money coming from? The EU doesn't have any of its own. Come on, be serious. The EU and the ECB do have money, or are you saying that the money doesn't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Which is why we and other countries will continue to neglect other areas whilst pumping billions into defence spending. Sad isn't it? Don't complain. Thanks to the MOD you now have organised deliveries of PPE and some Field Hospitals with exceptionally large capacity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Come on, be serious. The EU and the ECB do have money, or are you saying that the money doesn't exist? It comes from the member states so, big deal, they give some back and spend it how they wish, not necessarily how the contributors would wish. Or the ECB prints it just like any sovereign state bank could do. There's no magic money tree. Well, not one that's unique to the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Way to miss the point, Brexit has made too many people (on both sides) blinkered. I see the UK Government are the latest to state they could have handled things better. All governments seem to be adopting this pre-emptive approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Don't complain. Thanks to the MOD you now have organised deliveries of PPE and some Field Hospitals with exceptionally large capacity. If only we had sufficient capacity in our existing hospitals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: If only we had sufficient capacity in our existing hospitals... There may be enough capacity. But the level of infection in the UK is a big unknown. So it's a "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" strategy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh Sunday Times: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster Shocking report if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, pongo said: https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh Sunday Times: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster Shocking report if true. It’s unsurprising. Who in their right mind really believed that Johnson was an incisive, committed, purposeful and intelligent leader? There’s a juvenile with a costly education in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, pongo said: https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh Sunday Times: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster Shocking report if true. It's true all right. The Cygnus exercise in 2016 was a rehearsal for a pandemic hitting the UK. It drew conclusions all too common to us now. An NHS under extreme stress, a lack of ventilators and a lack of PPE. Surely, at that point, PPE and equipment like ventilators should have been made "strategic" - but they weren't. Once it became clear what might be going to happen they still had a chance to learn the lessons from Cygnus, But apparently not. So the British Public were left like sitting ducks.... 53 minutes ago, Uhtred said: It’s unsurprising. Who in their right mind really believed that Johnson was an incisive, committed, purposeful and intelligent leader? Errrr Only all of the brexiteers it would seem. After all, he is their cheerleader.... @Shake me up Judy Maybe you're the one who should wind their neck in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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