COVID-19 UK & Beyond

[P.K.]

The downside on that graph is that the number of new infections in the EU on the 16th June looks to be about 3,500 or thereabouts.

The number of new infections in the UK on the 16th June was 1,279.

Bozo and his Bungling Brexiteers have been completely and utterly useless....

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

The downside on that graph is that the number of new infections in the EU on the 16th June looks to be about 3,500 or thereabouts.

The number of new infections in the UK on the 16th June was 1,279.

Bozo and his Bungling Brexiteers have been completely and utterly useless....

It's a marathon, not a sprint, etc. etc. Don't be congratulating or damning anybody yet a while.

[P.K.]

29 minutes ago, woolley said:

It's a marathon, not a sprint, etc. etc. Don't be congratulating or damning anybody yet a while.

That's the excuse Bozo has been using for a while now.

Only he ducks the question "Why have we got the worst death toll in Europe? Could it be your total lack of leadership and the fact you chose your cabinet not on ability but on sycophancy?" with the classic empty  phrase "It's too early to make international comparisons...." and versions thereof.

Today's PMQ's were even more pathetic than usual. The HoC stupidity bar has never been set lower

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/17/boris-johnson-repeatedly-yells-schools-to-evade-scrutiny-in-dismal-pmqs?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Gmail

[woolley]

8 hours ago, P.K. said:

That's the excuse Bozo has been using for a while now.

Only he ducks the question "Why have we got the worst death toll in Europe? 

That's Belgium, isn't it? But actually it is far too early in the process to say who coped well and who didn't. The reasons there are so many deaths  are varied. One of the largest populations. Media don't seem to be intelligent enough to count deaths per million. Obviously doesn't suit their agenda. Different ways of measuring skews numbers too. All of that herd immunity may, or may not, come in useful in a subsequent wave of infection. I am still not convinced that trying to hide the entire healthy and young population away is a good idea in any event. This is far from over. Give it a couple of years then we may have perspective. 

[TheTeapot]

Saw an interview with a Belgian gov minister, taking flak for their death toll, asked why it was the highest his answer was simply "because we told the truth".

[P.K.]

23 minutes ago, woolley said:

 Media don't seem to be intelligent enough to count deaths per million. Obviously doesn't suit their agenda. Different ways of measuring skews numbers too.

That's the excuse Trump uses for his disastrous mishandling of the pandemic. But it's not an excuse the most populous nation in the EU needs to bother with. Which rather puts Trumps failings in the right perspective.

So out of the three populist right-wing so-called "leaders" whose incompetence has been totally exposed by the virus that leaves Bolsonaro who has adopted the tactic of not publishing the figures at all. Which can only mean one thing.

But hey, keep scratching around for excuses for them...

[manxman1980]

I see Macron is visiting the UK today (where was his 14 day quarantine by the way?) and the Prime Minister intends to discuss allowing UK residents to travel to other European countries, such as France, without the need to quarantine.  The basis for this seems to be that the UK Government has a list of countries who have their infection rates at a level that the UK Government has deemed acceptable and therefore will allow people to return from these countries without the need to quarantine.

My question is why would there countries allow people from the UK to enter without a quarantine period given that the infection rate for the UK is still close to 1...  

[woolley]

3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Saw an interview with a Belgian gov minister, taking flak for their death toll, asked why it was the highest his answer was simply "because we told the truth".

Truth out of Brussels? Well, well. First time for everything.

[woolley]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I see Macron is visiting the UK today (where was his 14 day quarantine by the way?) and the Prime Minister intends to discuss allowing UK residents to travel to other European countries, such as France, without the need to quarantine.  The basis for this seems to be that the UK Government has a list of countries who have their infection rates at a level that the UK Government has deemed acceptable and therefore will allow people to return from these countries without the need to quarantine.

My question is why would there countries allow people from the UK to enter without a quarantine period given that the infection rate for the UK is still close to 1...  

Same as the reason for most things. Economies are tanking and they need the money. That's the biggest crisis.

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 The basis for this seems to be that the UK Government has a list of countries who have their infection rates at a level that the UK Government has deemed acceptable

Now that's funny!

The UK has a daily infection rate that is three or four times that of France!

Perhaps Macron wants to know what steps the UK Gov will take to protect French citizens who are stupid enough to travel to Europe's biggest pandemic failure....

 

[Manximus Aururaneus]

There will come a time, if we are not already there, where countries like IOM are afraid to open borders with countries like the UK, but UK is not afraid to open borders with IOM.

That will apply to all countries across the world to varying degrees.

The question will then be - which country(s) have the problem?

[woolley]

If you look at the figures globally, it really isn't in decline. It has risen to a peak, plateaued and stayed there despite all of the lockdowns. Yes, it has travelled around the world from east to west but it is still infecting and killing the same numbers. At some point there has to be a realistic assessment of what compromises can be made to balance the health interests of the minority against the welfare of everyone. As, I think, PK once said, you can't hide from this.

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

If you look at the figures globally, it really isn't in decline. It has risen to a peak, plateaued and stayed there despite all of the lockdowns. Yes, it has travelled around the world from east to west but it is still infecting and killing the same numbers. At some point there has to be a realistic assessment of what compromises can be made to balance the health interests of the minority against the welfare of everyone. As, I think, PK once said, you can't hide from this.

A tad disingenuous there Woolster. Not been taking lessons from Bozo by chance...?

The figures may look the same for infections and deaths but that's because it's moving from country to country and testing and stressing the preparedness of the new entities it's infecting. But it's also leaving behind it countries who have suffered but also learned.

The flare-up in Beijing is a good case in point. They have very quickly, and surprisingly very publicly, come down very hard with lockdowns, travel bans etc etc because they know that's what they have to do to beat the virus.

And it CAN be beaten. New Zealand beat it. Of course, the two folks who re-infected the country just HAD to come from the UK....

[woolley]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

A tad disingenuous there Woolster. Not been taking lessons from Bozo by chance...?

The figures may look the same for infections and deaths but that's because it's moving from country to country and testing and stressing the preparedness of the new entities it's infecting. But it's also leaving behind it countries who have suffered but also learned.

The flare-up in Beijing is a good case in point. They have very quickly, and surprisingly very publicly, come down very hard with lockdowns, travel bans etc etc because they know that's what they have to do to beat the virus.

And it CAN be beaten. New Zealand beat it. Of course, the two folks who re-infected the country just HAD to come from the UK....

Nobody has beaten it, PK. The only way you could beat it barring a cure, is for every country to do what NZ and IoM have done and suppress the incidence down to zero. Nobody thinks that is possible in major economies, and nobody is aiming to do it. The damage to the livelihoods of  countries and everyone in them is simply too great. It's here for the long haul. I have friends in NZ, and that country is actually a case in point. Their economy has tanked badly. They know they need to open the borders, so it cannot be kept out. Same will be true of the Island in the not too distant future.

I stand by my earlier post. A compromise has to be struck between the health interests of the vulnerable who should be shielded more rigourously, and the wider welfare and interests of the majority of the population for whom this is generally little more than an irritation or a minor illness. If this is not done, the systems upon which our civilisations are based will start to break down.

Edited June 18, 2020 by woolley

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Nobody has beaten it, PK. The only way you could beat it barring a cure, is for every country to do what NZ and IoM have done and suppress the incidence down to zero. Nobody thinks that is possible in major economies, and nobody is aiming to do it. The damage to the livelihoods of  countries and everyone in them is simply too great. It's here for the long haul. I have friends in NZ, and that country is actually a case in point. Their economy has tanked badly. They know they need to open the borders, 

Open the borders to what, exactly?

The IOM border has been shut since the 25th March but goods have been flowing on the same regular basis as before.

Also every countries economy has tanked. It's not like NZ is a special case.

So what, specifically, do the borders have to open to facilitate?