P.K. Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, woolley said: And of course Germany bsnned export of PPE. Keep ducking and diving the issues... It's a testimony of just how inept and stupid this government is not only in expecting that supplies of PPE would be readily available overseas in a GLOBAL pandemic but having been warned of this very scenario in their own modelling Exercise Cygnus they then failed to make items like PPE "strategic". FOOLS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, woolley said: Very easy to look back in hindsight and say such things. Even now, we don't know what are the best measures to take. To think that Brexit is about closing borders and cutting Britain off from the world is to misunderstand the aims. It's about the direction the country takes in the future and who sets the course. If the government was about restricting entry it wouldn't be extending invitation of entry to Hong Kong citizens. So now you can explain how it wasn't necessary to put in control measures at UK borders until June. You know, after the virus started ramping up in March... Cue second wave bollox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 20 minutes ago, woolley said: Very easy to look back in hindsight and say such things. Even now, we don't know what are the best measures to take. To think that Brexit is about closing borders and cutting Britain off from the world is to misunderstand the aims. It's about the direction the country takes in the future and who sets the course. If the government was about restricting entry it wouldn't be extending invitation of entry to Hong Kong citizens. A huge part of Brexit was "take back control" and issues around immigration and border control as much as you would like to pretend otherwise. Don't argue that it wasn't or I will be forced to find a picture of Farage and that poster. Shutting borders early and controlling those who enter the country would have reduced the initial spread. In case you had not noticed, the UK like the Isle of Man is an Island. Stop the carriers of the virus being able to freely land and you will reduce infections... Even if you don't shut the borders they should have been doing temperature checks at the ports. They didn't. Sure, some people are asymptomatic but catching, quarantining and tracing everyone who was showing symptoms or who had been in contact with those showing symptoms would have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: A huge part of Brexit was "take back control" and issues around immigration and border control as much as you would like to pretend otherwise. I don't pretend otherwise. The above is entirely consistent with what I posted. It's all about whether you control your affairs yourself, or you abdicate control to an external authority. I am fine with elected UK governments making border and immigration policy. I may not always agree with the policy, but that's democracy. I am not fine with a regime in Brussels deciding these policies. That is the vital difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Be aware I ALWAYS check my numbers. 1 hour ago, P.K. said: I'll have no truck with anything from the likes of that "bring back hanging" one hand band nutter Guido nor purely propaganda mouthpieces like Russia Today. 1 hour ago, P.K. said: It turns out the only trusted media outlets (non-financial) in the UK are still the Beeb and the Guardian. The rest are alternative reality bollox for the gullible and hard of thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Shutting borders early and controlling those who enter the country would have reduced the initial spread. In case you had not noticed, the UK like the Isle of Man is an Island. Stop the carriers of the virus being able to freely land and you will reduce infections... Even if you don't shut the borders they should have been doing temperature checks at the ports. They didn't. Sure, some people are asymptomatic but catching, quarantining and tracing everyone who was showing symptoms or who had been in contact with those showing symptoms would have helped. Well take 100 scientists and you will get 100 opinions. Herd immunity seemed as plausible as any other strategy in the early days and was favoured by the government scientists. If it had not been it wouldn't have been sanctioned. It may yet prove to be the best weapon we have. Shutting the UK borders is a massive deal. It has the most cosmopolitan city and the biggest financial hub on the planet. You cannot compare that to shutting places like the Isle of Man or even New Zealand which is no big deal at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, woolley said: Well take 100 scientists and you will get 100 opinions. Herd immunity seemed as plausible as any other strategy in the early days and was favoured by the government scientists. If it had not been it wouldn't have been sanctioned. It may yet prove to be the best weapon we have. Shutting the UK borders is a massive deal. It has the most cosmopolitan city and the biggest financial hub on the planet. You cannot compare that to shutting places like the Isle of Man or even New Zealand which is no big deal at all. Even Sweden now admits herd immunity was the wrong choice. Unfortunately it's become very obvious that Bozo the Trumpette only "believes" the science that suits his political agenda. Which is why the scientists are very pissed off because they can just see a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar trying to blame them for mistake after mistake made by Bozo's "Administration". It's not about shutting the border though. That's a smokescreen. As New Zealand, S Korea, the CI's and others have shown it's about the virus coming in from outside that can cause big problems unless controls are in place and adhered to. Not something the UK bothered with until June. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, woolley said: Well take 100 scientists and you will get 100 opinions. Don't forget that a member of our current Government previously stated that people were fed up of hearing from experts... Why would that view have changed? 1 hour ago, woolley said: Shutting the UK borders is a massive deal. It has the most cosmopolitan city and the biggest financial hub on the planet. You cannot compare that to shutting places like the Isle of Man or even New Zealand which is no big deal at all. Yes, shutting borders is a massive deal. How much financial business is done face to face these days? The lockdown has not stopped the financial sector they have easily transferred to remote working. Sure the financial markets have taken a hit but that is more to do with how other businesses have been impacted by the virus. And laughably you are now using the excuse that London is a cosmopolitan city as a reason for keeping the borders open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: And laughably you are now using the excuse that London is a cosmopolitan city as a reason for keeping the borders open. It's a fact. Much harder than isolating Douglas, wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, woolley said: It's a fact. Much harder than isolating Douglas, wouldn't you say? Now that's funny! 52 minutes ago, P.K. said: It's not about shutting the border though. That's a smokescreen. As New Zealand, S Korea, the CI's and others have shown it's about the virus coming in from outside that can cause big problems unless controls are in place and adhered to. Not something the UK bothered with until June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, woolley said: It's a fact. Much harder than isolating Douglas, wouldn't you say? The DOI, TT road closures and road accidents have all managed that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, woolley said: It's a fact. Much harder than isolating Douglas, wouldn't you say? If the borders had been shut then it does not matter whether it is London or Douglas. No one is entering without prior authorisation. Those who wanted to leave could be allowed out but you control those coming into the country especially from places which had outbreaks at the time. The UK Government left the door wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I would also add that if the UK had shut the borders early and kept the virus at bay then the requirement for such a lengthy and draconian lockdown would have been reduced thereby allowing the domestic economy to continue and therefore reduce the need for financial support to individuals and businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Like we don't know this already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, quilp said: Like we don't know this already? Go take a look at Wooley's posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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