quilp Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) It has been said time and time again by various posters, even Corporal Sneer had it right from the outset. But who knew how quickly it would take hold and just how deadly it would be? Governments were warned earlier but the infection and potential was underestimated alas, but whoever had been in charge I believe where we are now with the virus would've been unavoidable. Boris's statement about poor management in care homes really isn't on, the dithering by scientists and government in the early stages of the pandemic was underplayed and imprecise. He's trying to pass the buck. And It's worth remembering that hospitals sent already ill patients back into the care homes. Edited July 7, 2020 by quilp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 You've really got to wonder about the scientific advice they've constantly claimed they followed. There has obviously been something going on behind the scenes, that Witty guy has certainly seemed uncomfortable with how things have been going and has almost stepped out of line a few times. I honestly do not understand how you can even consider herd immunity as a viable strategy for a NOVEL virus, and especially a coronavirus. Sure, it is possible it might work, but you cannot know when you have no/limited knowledge. It made no sense at the start to me, and I have posted to that effect previously (I think I described it as 'total shit'), and got shouted down for it. Now that the pandemic has been running for a while the evidence is showing how wrong this is. Read this if you're interested, pretty big sample size from a country that got hit hard https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext or a more simple version on the beeb https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53315983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: You've really got to wonder about the scientific advice they've constantly claimed they followed. There has obviously been something going on behind the scenes, that Witty guy has certainly seemed uncomfortable with how things have been going and has almost stepped out of line a few times. I honestly do not understand how you can even consider herd immunity as a viable strategy for a NOVEL virus, and especially a coronavirus. Sure, it is possible it might work, but you cannot know when you have no/limited knowledge. It made no sense at the start to me, and I have posted to that effect previously (I think I described it as 'total shit'), and got shouted down for it. Now that the pandemic has been running for a while the evidence is showing how wrong this is. Read this if you're interested, pretty big sample size from a country that got hit hard https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext or a more simple version on the beeb https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53315983 Don't exaggerate. The scientific advisers gave Bozo all the options available. Because frighteningly it's Bozo's decision to make. He chose "herd immunity" irrespective of the risks presumably because it was the option that caused the least harm to the economy. After being roundly and soundly pilloried over several days for taking a totally stupid decision that would leave the already weakened by a decade of "austerity" NHS totally overwhelmed and up to 510,000 fatalities Bozo had to make a hasty U-turn. Which is why the right whingers on here, which is to say the vast majority, keep banging on about how "herd immunity" could turn out to be the only option ie presuming there will never be a vaccine, so Bozo was right all along. Of course, we are still a long way from knowing if it actually would work and currently it would appear to be literally a dead end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, quilp said: But who knew how quickly it would take hold and just how deadly it would be? Governments were warned earlier but the infection and potential was underestimated alas, but whoever had been in charge I believe where we are now with the virus would've been unavoidable. Even as a layman I could tell it was serious at the outset when reports started coming in from China and specifically Wuhan describing the lockdown measures that they were putting in place. It was at that stage that the UK Government should have reacted to ban travel from China. As soon as it spread outside China then the borders should have been shut and anyone returning subject to quarantine. 1 hour ago, quilp said: Boris's statement about poor management in care homes really isn't on, the dithering by scientists and government in the early stages of the pandemic was underplayed and imprecise. He's trying to pass the buck. And It's worth remembering that hospitals sent already ill patients back into the care homes. That is what Johnson does best. Problem is he can no longer blame the EU so has to blame someone, anyone other than his Government. 51 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: You've really got to wonder about the scientific advice they've constantly claimed they followed. Don't forget that "we" are fed up of hearing from experts and being told what to do by experts. Much better to surround yourself with people who Cummings likes and yes men (or women). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The £1000 per job saved until January bonus from the government to businesses seems pointless to me. There will be people going back to work from furlough, and there will be people going onto the dole from furlough. How many are going to be transferred from the latter group to the former by the incentive of a grand per head? Not many, I would suggest. In the meantime, it will mean a grand of taxpayers' money for every employee that was going to be retained anyway. I accept that most of the measures taken during the crisis have been necessary for the welfare of the economy, but this one seems quite bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, woolley said: The £1000 per job saved until January bonus from the government to businesses seems pointless to me. There will be people going back to work from furlough, and there will be people going onto the dole from furlough. How many are going to be transferred from the latter group to the former by the incentive of a grand per head? Not many, I would suggest. In the meantime, it will mean a grand of taxpayers' money for every employee that was going to be retained anyway. I accept that most of the measures taken during the crisis have been necessary for the welfare of the economy, but this one seems quite bizarre. Big employers will have forced it through. Just another tory wealth transfer that does nothing for the little man. 'Saving jobs'. Yeah. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Big employers will have forced it through. Just another tory wealth transfer that does nothing for the little man. 'Saving jobs'. Yeah. No. There are far easier ways to have done that. NI holiday, for instance, and a lot less admin involved. You appear to have a very jaundiced view of things, Teapot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, woolley said: No. There are far easier ways to have done that. NI holiday, for instance, and a lot less admin involved. You appear to have a very jaundiced view of things, Teapot. Very very. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Very very. I think internet forums full of tossers are making people paranoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 26 minutes ago, woolley said: I think internet forums full of tossers are making people paranoid. I should probably stay off them tbh. Here included. It's not just a UK problem though, its happening all over the place. It doesn't take very long to come up with numerous examples of firms abusing covid relief or frankly bizarre PPE contracts handed out. Like that BREXIT ferry firm a year or so back, the corruption is rife. Or the bank bailouts from 2008ish, utterly crazy stuff. And it isn't just limited to the Tories either, Gordon Browns obsession with PFI was a sickening wealth transfer too. I fucking hate it all. If I wasn't such a nice person I'd be wanting to blow shit up. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I should probably stay off them tbh. Here included. It's not just a UK problem though, its happening all over the place. It doesn't take very long to come up with numerous examples of firms abusing covid relief or frankly bizarre PPE contracts handed out. Like that BREXIT ferry firm a year or so back, the corruption is rife. Or the bank bailouts from 2008ish, utterly crazy stuff. And it isn't just limited to the Tories either, Gordon Browns obsession with PFI was a sickening wealth transfer too. I fucking hate it all. If I wasn't such a nice person I'd be wanting to blow shit up. Yeah. I always thought that the UK government should have stood behind the retail accounts of companies and individuals and let the actual banks go to the wall in the face of the moral hazard aspect involved. Let them reap the results of their own misdeeds. However, that could have been very bad for us in the offshore world if our banks were pulled down by their UK parents but the UK government only bailed out UK customers. So perhaps we should count our blessings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, woolley said: The £1000 per job saved until January bonus from the government to businesses seems pointless to me. There will be people going back to work from furlough, and there will be people going onto the dole from furlough. How many are going to be transferred from the latter group to the former by the incentive of a grand per head? Not many, I would suggest. In the meantime, it will mean a grand of taxpayers' money for every employee that was going to be retained anyway. I accept that most of the measures taken during the crisis have been necessary for the welfare of the economy, but this one seems quite bizarre. Jesus... I actually agree with you on something. The other strange development is the "eat out to help out" discounts on meals. This is the same Government who only weeks ago had to be shamed into funding meals for deprived children over the summer holidays. ETA: Even the stamp duty changes will probably be more beneficial to those who have significant savings already. The banks are now asking for deposits of between 15% and 20% which will probably make buying a new home in this climate difficult despite this announcement. Edited July 8, 2020 by manxman1980 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 10:08 AM, P.K. said: Of course, we are still a long way from knowing if (herd immunity) actually would work and currently it would appear to be literally a dead end... As could everything else that is being tried. No cure, no vaccine, no consensus on the best way forward. Nobody yet knows. All we do know is that for the overwhelming majority of fit and healthy people, it isn't an issue. We also know that it wreaks some very novel effects on its victims. Based on that, we have to find a way forward. Unless of course we are going to have a global attempt at eradicating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, woolley said: As could everything else that is being tried. No cure, no vaccine, no consensus on the best way forward. Nobody yet knows. All we do know is that for the overwhelming majority of fit and healthy people, it isn't an issue. We also know that it wreaks some very novel effects on its victims. Based on that, we have to find a way forward. Unless of course we are going to have a global attempt at eradicating it. Even Sweden now say the "herd immunity" choice was fucking stupid. You know, the preferred choice of our Prime Minister.... Bozo got another drubbing at PMQ's. Bozo just couldn't resist an opportunity to try and blame anyone but himself for the care homes disaster. So when Starmer took him to task over his ill-chosen words he reverted to his default setting to wit "When in trouble, lie your way out of it" like he has been doing all his adult life. Unfortunately for Bozo that's simply not good enough for Starmer. But as that's all Bozo has got he has to suffer the indignity of being made to look as mendacious as he really is every PMQ's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Herd immunity does look rather sketchy at the moment. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.