BoJo taken into hospital

[woolley]

3 hours ago, pongo said:

The economy will be fine. When confidence returns. That means being able to declare the thing properly over. Until then it's better to be closed.

As much as 4/5 of the economy will quickly adjust anyhow. And the govt and the bank can create and destroy liquidity in order to maintain money supply meanwhile.

Anyhow - it's not all about the economy.

Imagine if people had said they would not "put up" with the blackouts. Or had argued that it was a loss of freedom or some kind of conspiracy.

Different times. Different society. The pressures will become irresistible if they try to keep it in place for multiple months. Even the army can only do so much. As I said, the societal damage will ultimately eclipse fear of the disease. You cannot pickle whole populations in aspic any more than you can freeze your body then bring it back to life at a later date. 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

Different times. Different society. The pressures will become irresistible if they try to keep it in place for multiple months. Even the army can only do so much. As I said, the societal damage will ultimately eclipse fear of the disease. You cannot pickle whole populations in aspic any more than you can freeze your body then bring it back to life at a later date. 

Societal damage will never eclipse the disease but it may become simple natural selection at work....

I noticed that New York are storing bodies in refrigerated trucks and may have to start burying bodies in public spaces. Strange but true I don't recall seasonal flu achieving the same result....

So Bozo is in an ICU. After all the cuts he and his tory mates have made in our NHS and with his totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit causing some 10,000 EU medical staff to leave our NHS I trust the irony is not lost on him that he's now dependent on the very service whose effectiveness he has seriously reduced.

Well Bozo, the irony is certainly not lost on me...

[Chinahand]

 

14 minutes ago, P.K. said:

After all the cuts he and his tory mates have made in our NHS and with his totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit causing some 10,000 EU medical staf

Goodness you talk some disingenuous, politically motivated twaddle.  The left's continual politicisation of the NHS and its claims of collapse and ruin are a bright shining lie.

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/december-2019

 

[Chinahand]

HCHS doctors are all doctor grades ie:

[P.K.]

Excuse me Mr C but all you are doing is tracking the requirements of an ageing population. Which amazingly is growing year on year!

For example it seems that there have been massive increases in conditions like dementia year on year. But true and then not so true. According to my brother who was Director of Research Dementia UK the problem is that previously the body always gave out before the mind. But with the advances in medical science, drugs, advanced treatments etc at least five years ago but probably ten we went over the tipping point where the mind now gives out before the body.

Obviously a debate is needed as to is this a good thing or not but the facts remain, and if you speak to frontline NHS staff they will tell you, that they see day in day out that "the government" are making them struggle.

Guess what they would tell you to do with your graphs...?

[prism10]

40 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

 

Goodness you talk some disingenuous, politically motivated twaddle.  The left's continual politicisation of the NHS and its claims of collapse and ruin are a bright shining lie.

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/december-2019

 

Don't need graphs.

All I know is that there are not enough ICU beds compared to countries such as Germany.

There is not enough PPE equipment for doctors and nurses who are needlessly dying in the frontline.

All that after 10 years of Tory investment in the health service.

 

 

[woolley]

41 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

HCHS doctors are all doctor grades ie:

Its quite shocking the lies and propaganda that is put around by the likes of Momentum. They are relentless with it and eventually it sticks with the hard of thinking. As if ANY healthcare system on the planet could easily cope with the peak of a pandemic. 

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, prism10 said:

Don't need graphs.

All I know is that there are not enough ICU beds compared to countries such as Germany.

There is not enough PPE equipment for doctors and nurses who are needlessly dying in the frontline.

All that after 10 years of Tory investment in the health service.

Ahhh but all the right whingers on here, which is to say very much the majority, will tell you that our "caring Conservatism" government are putting "record" amounts into the NHS.

But if it's not enough to fund the service, and it isn't, then they are deliberately running down the service.

Like they've been doing for years...

[P.K.]

4 minutes ago, woolley said:

Its quite shocking the lies and propaganda that is put around by the likes of Momentum. They are relentless with it and eventually it sticks with the hard of thinking. As if ANY healthcare system on the planet could easily cope with the peak of a pandemic. 

Ah yes, playing the "Momentum" card.

The position of last resort....

Funny!

[Freggyragh]

People also smoke less, transport is safer, industrial pollution is far better managed, people have better access to healthy food, health and safety regs have been brought in protect workers and consumers, homes are safer and house fires are far less common. I could go on. 

Some newer medical treatments are very expensive, and there have been some shortages and some short-cuts taken, but in my experience, the NHS is exceptionally good at what it does, and what it does is hardly matched by any other health system in the world. It could always do with more, of course it could. You’ll never have a government that can provide for all what most countries can only provide for a tiny elite. 

Having said that, there should have been mechanisms in place to defend us better from the virus. I think we’ll handle the next one better, and maybe people will start to realise that more money and praise should be directed to the NHS. 

[Freggyragh]

It’s all well and good banging on about ventilators and ICU places - but when you’re that far down the line your chances aren’t great. Much more important is the PPE, testing, tracing and effective, early lockdown measures. 

[Freggyragh]

Sorry for following PK down the rabbit hole. It’s bloody important now that Johnson pulls through - for morale and to get back to leading the UK through this awful situation. As I’m not religious I can’t say prayers for his speedy recovery, but I’ll wish it. 

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

Sorry for following PK down the rabbit hole. It’s bloody important now that Johnson pulls through - for morale and to get back to leading the UK through this awful situation. As I’m not religious I can’t say prayers for his speedy recovery, but I’ll wish it. 

The country needs a leader. Bozo is nothing like a leader. Honest, trustworthy, hardworking - none of these words refer to Boris Johnson.

Unfortunately, and it hurts to admit it, Roger is right. There is such a paucity of "talent" in the current tory party it looks like, as a nation, we are truly fucked over.

In the grand scheme of things what happens to Johnson is an irrelevance really. If he is hors de combat then command and control just slips seamlessly to the 2 I/C. OK, it would probably be helpful if the new PM at least understood that with some 30% of the food we eat coming through Dover the port is somewhat "strategic" shall we say. But as needs must I suppose....

Yes. As a nation we will have sunk THAT low...

[Declan]

8 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

Sorry for following PK down the rabbit hole. It’s bloody important now that Johnson pulls through - for morale and to get back to leading the UK through this awful situation. As I’m not religious I can’t say prayers for his speedy recovery, but I’ll wish it. 

It's also important for all his faults there's a bit of humanity in him. He wants to be liked so he's more likely to flex when the greater good is requires. Imagine a Raab or Pritti Patel premiership back by the majority Boris won. The country would be an ideological car-crash after five years.

Also, imagine a Britain where Boris is a tragic figure life cut short just after reach the position he was destined for - a Kurt Cobain for red faced men in blazers and mustard trousers.

[Shake me up Judy]

STFU P.K.