Music service and other extra services - expendable post corona?

[asitis]

5 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Whilst music for most is possibly not an academic subject, I think it's essential that children be given the basics and encouraged to take that further as an interest. Playing recorder at school led me to having private clarinet lessons, learning the rudiments of sight reading music and doing a bunch of grade exams. Later in life that foundation led me to playing saxophone a bit, then guitar, drums, piano and bass - not to much more of a standard than 'noodling' and having an enjoyable hobby.

I encouraged my children to be musical but sadly none of them did. Same with my grandkids. Makes me sad.

I fully agree Stu, so here is your platform for opposing all forms of profligate waste. I look forward to hear you challenging Government regularly when they continue to throw millions down the toilet !

[Destinymoon]

7 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Whilst music for most is possibly not an academic subject, I think it's essential that children be given the basics and encouraged to take that further as an interest. Playing recorder at school led me to having private clarinet lessons, learning the rudiments of sight reading music and doing a bunch of grade exams. Later in life that foundation led me to playing saxophone a bit, then guitar, drums, piano and bass - not to much more of a standard than 'noodling' and having an enjoyable hobby.

I encouraged my children to be musical but sadly none of them did. Same with my grandkids. Makes me sad.

Sorry Stu. This new report has nothing to do with whether the individual efforts at getting some enjoyment out of music is a valiant goal.

It’s to do with teachers being happy in the workplace. Instigated by government and now showing some very concerning workplace environments if to be believed…..will anything be done about it?

I humbly ask that you find out?

[quilp]

How many more times do you have to reiterate that claim..? 

[ManxTaxPayer]

On 4/13/2020 at 11:21 PM, TheTeapot said:

I'd say it's important that there is a good music service in schools.

Not everyone can afford take little Henry or Victoria to private piano lessons.

That's tough shit on little Henry or Victoria then. The Music Service don't offer tuition for the piano. 

[quilp]

@offshoremanxman I'm not going to trawl through a myriad of turgid responses to find out exactly where you've said it before, and you're intimating it now. Government workers, teachers, et al, all sat on their arses getting paid for doing fuck all. I get it, but all you echolaliacs need to move on from this repetitive griping...

Edited January 6, 2022 by quilp

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, ManxTaxPayer said:

That's tough shit on little Henry or Victoria then. The Music Service don't offer tuition for the piano. 

But there are some piano teachers who do it pro bono. 

[ManxTaxPayer]

9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

But there are some piano teachers who do it pro bono. 

Maybe, (I don't know about that) but it isn't done as part of the Music Service. 

[TheTeapot]

2 hours ago, ManxTaxPayer said:

That's tough shit on little Henry or Victoria then. The Music Service don't offer tuition for the piano. 

Gutted for them

[manxman1980]

3 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

Well exactly they’ve been sat on their arses during lockdowns just getting paid. 

2 hours ago, quilp said:

How many more times do you have to reiterate that claim..? 

In fairness that is the first time on this thread that @offshoremanxman made that claim.  Plenty of others have said similar things though including the OP.

I am not going to go through all the other posts they have made on the forums though.

[manxman1980]

4 hours ago, Destinymoon said:

Sorry Stu. This new report has nothing to do with whether the individual efforts at getting some enjoyment out of music is a valiant goal.

It’s to do with teachers being happy in the workplace. Instigated by government and now showing some very concerning workplace environments if to be believed…..will anything be done about it?

I humbly ask that you find out?

You are now conflating two different issues...  You started this thread by asking whether Music should stop being part of the curriculum as part of cost saving measures post coronavirus and suggested that Music Services should be paid for directly by parents rather than via the taxpayer.

The results of a staff survey sent to everyone in the Department of Education, Sport and Culture exploring attitudes towards leadership is not really relevant to your initial question and you are now asking an entirely different question relating to how leadership within the DESC can be improved.

I suspect that the results have been impacted by the Coronavirus and the lack of visibility of leadership as a result.  There have also been underlying issues in some places for years, such as CRHS from what I have heard, which need to be addressed.

I would imagine that Music Services suffer even more in this time as it is my understanding that they move around as required, much the same as supply teachers, and therefore are likely to see even less of those in leadership roles.

Even in the private sector I would say that many similar surveys would deliver similar results with the exception of a few businesses who have responded excellently to the pandemic and who have quickly adjusted to new ways of working.  I know there are plenty of places which responded very badly and did not trust employees to work from home and tried to introduce methods of monitoring work activity (e.g. keystrokes) rather than output.

However, to go back to your original question, I think Music has a place in the curriculum and provides an opportunity to children to learn about music or to play an instrument especially from backgrounds where they would not be encouraged to do so at home due to cost.  

As for those complaining about what Teachers have been doing during the pandemic...  Well, like everyone else, they have been trying to adjust to a new way of working and teaching.  At the start of the pandemic no-one had ever envisaged teaching remotely on a full time basis.  How do you engage a primary school class over Zoom or Teams?  How do you deal with rebellious teens over Zoom/Teams?  

Don't forget that a lot of teachers are also parents so would have also had to home school their own children whilst balancing work just like many others.

If you want to improve the education then we need to get back to a time when Teaching was a respected profession and not just glorified childcare.

(No, I am not a Teacher nor do I work in the DESC)

[AcousticallyChallenged]

4 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

Well exactly they’ve been sat on their arses during lockdowns just getting paid. 

Let's see your lesson plans then for a remote music or DT curriculum.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Let's see your lesson plans then for a remote music or DT curriculum.

Half the people criticising teachers have not got a clue about lesson plans and the amount of paperwork involved prior to teaching a class.

[Destinymoon]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Half the people criticising teachers have not got a clue about lesson plans and the amount of paperwork involved prior to teaching a class.

You’re having a laugh if you’re referring to music service are you?

Evidence would be in a full independent inspection, but from what info I can see that hasn’t happened for years.

And with this resultant survey would that not now be necessary?

[manxman1980]

15 hours ago, Destinymoon said:

You’re having a laugh if you’re referring to music service are you?

Evidence would be in a full independent inspection, but from what info I can see that hasn’t happened for years.

 

I would imagine that the Music Service would still have some form of lesson plan when providing tuition, however, as I do not work for the Music Service or the DESC I am not entirely sure what preparatory work they are required to undertake.

My comment about lesson plans was in reference to the criticism being levelled against all teachers.

What evidence are you looking for?  Isn't OFSTED meant to be the full independent inspection you are talking about?  Or do you want to create another layer of cost both in terms of paying for an independent inspection and in terms of the indirect costs that will be incurred in preparing and hosting such an inspection?

15 hours ago, Destinymoon said:

And with this resultant survey would that not now be necessary?

"The resultant survey"?  The survey looks to be something that the DESC does on a regular basis, as do many private sector employers, the hint is in the name...  What I would expect to see from the survey is an internal follow up, including conversations with employees and their representatives, to fully understand what the issues are.  Then I would expect to see an action plan with SMART targets to address the issues raised.  Again that follow up would be done internally and checked through future surveys to measure the effectiveness of the interventions.

 

[Destinymoon]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I would imagine that the Music Service would still have some form of lesson plan when providing tuition, however, as I do not work for the Music Service or the DESC I am not entirely sure what preparatory work they are required to undertake.

My comment about lesson plans was in reference to the criticism being levelled against all teachers.

What evidence are you looking for?  Isn't OFSTED meant to be the full independent inspection you are talking about?  Or do you want to create another layer of cost both in terms of paying for an independent inspection and in terms of the indirect costs that will be incurred in preparing and hosting such an inspection?

"The resultant survey"?  The survey looks to be something that the DESC does on a regular basis, as do many private sector employers, the hint is in the name...  What I would expect to see from the survey is an internal follow up, including conversations with employees and their representatives, to fully understand what the issues are.  Then I would expect to see an action plan with SMART targets to address the issues raised.  Again that follow up would be done internally and checked through future surveys to measure the effectiveness of the interventions.

 

For someone who doesn't teach in DESC or Music Service Manxman you sure do seem to know a lot about this kind of thing.

I do respect your previous posts and agree with a lot of what you have said.........particularly griping continually about teachers.......like a lot of professions they have had to deal with massive change in the delivery of lessons and assessment.

The survey appears to highlight discontent in the teaching staff not only in Music Service but many other schools, something that agreed needs followed up to ascertain whether this is a genuine cause for concern or just a gripe/group personal vendetta at a person in charge. How do you realistically gain an insight therefore into the genuineness of such a damning report into management confidence.........surely independant assessment? Is that not what guarantees a neutral approach?

Internal follows up are too connected to personalities and mates, (ie, if there has been long outstanding issues that HR or senior leaders have been aware off, have they been addressed by the Director etc. or just passed over) just saying, but if it affects the operational output of a department/school then the reason why needs sorted and learnt from. This is a really basic thing.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Destinymoon