IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

It’s hard to see what the big secret is? 

Juan W. Made a good point in tha once policy was made, the working out should be a matter of public record. The exceptions of National Security Clearly apply, but we are not at war here. We are trying to take the public with us in all this, and secrecy has no valid part to play. It is even more telling when COMIN are unable to add any validation to their approach.

It's particularly bizarre when you're discussing scientific advice, because the whole way that science is supposed to work is out in the open.  And that has been particularly marked during this crisis - I've seen scientific papers effectively being peer-reviewed on Twitter and amended accordingly.  And that's meant that some people and governments have been able to react with speed and accuracy to changing circumstances.

But the problem here is that there doesn't seem to have been much in the way of scientific advice in the input to these meetings.  It's not just the Director of Public Health that feels she isn't being listened to or even asked - @rachomics was tweeting the other day after listening to this debate:

Quote

[...] very interested to hear of the briefing paper on testing which will be going to COMIN on Thursday. Anyone know who's writing it? If "senior officers" are writing these briefings what scientific qualifications do they have to do so?

Clearly no information should ever be received form anyone who knows about the subject.

[Andy Onchan]

52 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's particularly bizarre when you're discussing scientific advice, because the whole way that science is supposed to work is out in the open.  And that has been particularly marked during this crisis - I've seen scientific papers effectively being peer-reviewed on Twitter and amended accordingly.  And that's meant that some people and governments have been able to react with speed and accuracy to changing circumstances.

But the problem here is that there doesn't seem to have been much in the way of scientific advice in the input to these meetings.  It's not just the Director of Public Health that feels she isn't being listened to or even asked - @rachomics was tweeting the other day after listening to this debate:

Clearly no information should ever be received form anyone who knows about the subject.

Publik 'elf Ingerlund?

[paswt]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

@Banker @Neil Down @Nom de plume @thesultanofsheight@TheTeapot

You can all take a week off.

would it be possible for the DDB's to take a week  as well and perhaps WTF for calling me a "twat" ( in response to a polite post about the Onchan election) 🤣, asking for a friend.

[Non-Believer]

40 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Publik 'elf Ingerlund?

Could be. Helicopters were quick enough to arrive here in the early days too. Maybe our Govt's calls and judgements in respect of our COVID situation aren't as "independent" as they'd like everybody to think they are? Because if they're not taking qualified local scientific opinion, whose are they taking?

Edited October 22, 2020 by Non-Believer
Extra bit

[John Wright]

34 minutes ago, paswt said:

would it be possible for the DDB's to take a week  as well and perhaps WTF for calling me a "twat" ( in response to a polite post about the Onchan election) 🤣, asking for a friend.

Only if you do, as well.

[piebaps]

Hmmm personal freedoms. I can go to work, meet friends, go shopping, eat out, go to the pub and pretty much come and go as I please. Yes there is a 14 day self-isolation thing, but when I look around at the rest of the British Islands right now, I'll take that.

I'm not really bothered about the basis on which it was done and the medical evidence is of no interest to me as I have no medical qualifications.

PS Nice work JW - long overdue.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's particularly bizarre when you're discussing scientific advice, because the whole way that science is supposed to work is out in the open.  And that has been particularly marked during this crisis - I've seen scientific papers effectively being peer-reviewed on Twitter and amended accordingly.  And that's meant that some people and governments have been able to react with speed and accuracy to changing circumstances.

But the problem here is that there doesn't seem to have been much in the way of scientific advice in the input to these meetings.  It's not just the Director of Public Health that feels she isn't being listened to or even asked - @rachomics was tweeting the other day after listening to this debate:

Clearly no information should ever be received form anyone who knows about the subject.

HQ seemed to intimate the Director of Public Health has been a party to meetings and discussions?

[Roger Mexico]

11 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

HQ seemed to intimate the Director of Public Health has been a party to meetings and discussions?

He went on about her appearing remotely to advise CoMin.  This suggests he was thinking about earlier in the pandemic when people were still having to work remotely.  But the argument here is about advice on current and more recent policy and input into that at earlier stages rather than just talking to CoMin when all the options have already been laid out.

There also seems to be a question about how the 7-day testing was introduced.  Thomas tried to pin this down (line 460 on): [...]why wasn’t there a policy paper before the decision was made about seven-day testing? People are saying, and I would like the Chief Minister to answer this please, that the Chief Minister made that decision, it was not the Council of Ministers.  And in reply Quayle just babbled (lines 475-491) and of course didn't even attempt to answer any of Thomas's questions or even discuss them.

[Apple]

In my honest opinion the last time I was present and heard from Dr Ewart she sounded quite dismayed and almost angry that the (my words) lack of planning or development that had gone on before her arrival with regards to Public Health. Frankly I don't think she could believe how it had been run beforehand (or financed) and almost seemed disenchanted with the political system that had allowed it become the way it was. Just my view so may be misleading. I still rate her and think she has been good for the island with her sometimes quite frank approach. 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

7 hours ago, Lxxx said:

He constantly refers to his need to ask someone or refer to others before answering, conveniently forgetting he is the one in charge. Supposedly.

It's an information thing.  Do you expect him to magic numbers off the top of his head?

[Andy Onchan]

3 minutes ago, Apple said:

In my honest opinion the last time I was present and heard from Dr Ewart she sounded quite dismayed and almost angry that the (my words) lack of planning or development that had gone on before her arrival with regards to Public Health. Frankly I don't think she could believe how it had been run beforehand (or financed) and almost seemed disenchanted with the political system that had allowed it become the way it was. Just my view so may be misleading. I still rate her and think she has been good for the island with her sometimes quite frank approach. 

Indeed. I recall listening to her when she made her first appearance at a Tynwald Committee sitting. She was scathing about the lack of basic data, particularly statistics on cancer treatments, subsequent deaths and mortality reporting in general, as I recall. 

[Apple]

Quite right. I remember that session well.

[WTF]

6 hours ago, paswt said:

would it be possible for the DDB's to take a week  as well and perhaps WTF for calling me a "twat" ( in response to a polite post about the Onchan election) 🤣, asking for a friend.

i didn't call you a twat, i asked how do you spell twat.  

[paswt]

Just now, WTF said:

i didn't call you a twat, i asked how do you spell twat.  

Correct I posted they spelt my name incorrectly which elicited your response 

I freely admit that on occasions I can be ' a bit of a ****😂 

If ever I'm unaware/forget   that I have erred  I'm fortunate in that 'management' reminds me 

Just saying

[Max Power]

I hate to say it but I had a horrible feeling that this would bite King Howard in the ass...

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=58577&headline=Travel boss's concerns over air bridge&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020