IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

There is also the power of knowledge and information; if we understand the virus that is here, its strain and infection chain, then aren't we better equipped for future outbreaks?

It may not solve this lockdown, but it may equip us for the future and create an environment where we can live with it, as I think we ultimately will have to. 

As for wise old Rhumsaa,  I understand entirely what you are saying, but the answer, surely, is to pursue the course of most benefit to the island, and to work on a constructive relationship of trust and mutual respect.  Unfortunately, while Dr Glover was arguing about the science, the IOMG response was facile, opaque and, to be frank, an inept attempt at "spin".  DA did not even know what the status of the relationship was!!!! 

I get the feeling that within the corridors of power, the policy is something along the lines of " would rather burn in hell than have that woman back".  Question is who will burn in hell, the IOM population?

There is also the question of where is the advisory committee that was agreed?  So, who is advising the decision makers now?

[Lost Login]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Because we don't know that there has only been one introduction this time and about a third of the cases had no obvious contact with another person infected.  So it could have come on the Island several times in recent weeks.  Genomics would reassure us there was only one source and if not we could look to see how the other infections arrived and how measures could be improved.

 

Thanks so the point really is That as teapot says it will not help us cease the transmission and get us out of lockdown any quicker than the current measures will. What it potentially does is assist us reviewing if there were multiple sources, how they were linked, how tracing worked etc and then making sure that we look to improve for the future. On that basis whilst I can see people taking sides on the spat between the Govt and Rachel Glover based on personalities etc in practical terms in respect of getting out of lockdown it does not make much difference who does the sequencing and whether we get the results back in 24hrs, 48hrs, 7 days or 14 days. 

That is in part what I was trying to understand as the impression given my some, again not necessarily on Manx Forums, was that not using her Genomic testing facility was going to greatly delay getting the current restrictions lifted. From what you are saying that appears not to be the case.

[Gladys]

There is another important point, and that is the whole genesis of the falling out.  Dr Glover recommended testing before leaving isolation, but that was quickly dropped and, to the lay person, it would appear that if that testing had happened, we wouldn't be locked down now as the positive case would have been picked up before going into the wild. 

 

[TheTeapot]

4 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Thanks so the point really is That as teapot says it will not help us cease the transmission and get us out of lockdown any quicker than the current measures will. 

 

I didn't say that bit at all. It absolutely would help 'cease the transmission'.

[Apple]

3 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

was that not using her Genomic testing facility was going to greatly delay getting the current restrictions lifted. From what you are saying that appears not to be the case.

In essence that is the case, but it also depends on other factors like strains, vaccine supply, type of border restrictions,what is happening across etc.

What is apparent though is that in the circumstances we are in we could use all the data we can get our hands on to manage the virus and to make realistic plans to safeguard people as best we can. All hands to the pump.

[Rhumsaa]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

As for wise old Rhumsaa,  I understand entirely what you are saying, but the answer, surely, is to pursue the course of most benefit to the island, and to work on a constructive relationship of trust and mutual respect.

Agreed

And the IOMG could have saved the situation countless times during the process.

However, the most recent offer from Dr Glover isn't the best way of starting a second chance of a constructive relationship of trust and mutual respect I don't believe.

[manxst]

4 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

Agreed

And the IOMG could have saved the situation countless times during the process.

However, the most recent offer from Dr Glover isn't the best way of starting a second chance of a constructive relationship of trust and mutual respect I don't believe.

Sadly, her Twitter offer isn’t the starting point of a second chance. That was in fact the private emails she says she sent to the government and which have been ignored, so causing her to Tweet instead. Typically, the government ineptitude and silence on the matter has caused those who don’t know this, and who usually blindly follow in good faith, to rally against the doctor. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by manxst

[Lost Login]

1 minute ago, TheTeapot said:

I didn't say that bit at all. It absolutely would help 'cease the transmission'.

Apologies If I misunderstood you. When you said "It would probably not, because the lockdown is a political decision." in response to my question how will it assist us getting out of lockdown quicker I took that to mean you agreed it would not stop transmission and therefore lockdown quicker. You are differentiating the two and therefore suggesting that the speed of getting out of lockdown is not directly linked to the speed of transmission.

Fair enough. How will using Dr Glover's Genomic testing help cease the transmission in the IoM quicker than the current lockdown will. In my simple mind, the lockdown stops contacts between people which stops the transmission. If we  all self isolated for a period of 4/5 weeks, impractical I know, transmission is broken and end of the virus.  

[quilp]

@rachomics and @wrighty Is it possible that a variant emerges that is resistant to one vaccine type, say the Pfizer version, but is not resistant to the Moderna, or the AZ? It would be of immense importance in effective treatment, in short order, if we had the ability to speedily identify the profile of which variant a person had contracted. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by quilp

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, horatiotheturd said:

Just watched the latest BBC news about vaccine rollout in USA, India and the UK.

The figures being quoted are astounding and the speed at which centres have been set up is phenomenal. 

Nice, simple quick and cheap facilities like drive through ones in America and Salisbury Cathedral in the UK.  The Cathedral seems perfectly fit for purpose having had some basic cubicles installed and volunteers drafted in to give out the jabs.

Bit embarrassing really, while our lot spend fortunes building facilities that will no doubt have new floor to ceiling walls, plastered, and probably papered with custom wallsllpaper and carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it to be opened twice a week, 9:30 to 4 with lunch breaks when they eventually finish it.

You can bet your last dollar that it will be Manxified.

[Rhumsaa]

8 minutes ago, manxst said:

Sadly, her Twitter offer isn’t the starting point of a second chance. That was in fact the private emails she says she sent to the government and which have been ignored, so causing her to Tweet instead. Typically, the government ineptitude and silence on the matter has caused those who don’t know this, and who usually blindly follow in good faith, to rally against the doctor. 

But even then, there's a way of writing that tweet that doesn't draw a big line in the sand and make the IOMG lose face by reaching out at some point.

Or just don't write the tweet.

[Gladys]

6 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

But even then, there's a way of writing that tweet that doesn't draw a big line in the sand and make the IOMG lose face by reaching out at some point.

Or just don't write the tweet.

But that is the frightening thing, it is about saving face, not protecting the IOM. 

[Rhumsaa]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

But that is the frightening thing, it is about saving face, not protecting the IOM. 

Well..... I agree but playing devils advocate - if they at some level believe their stance over Rachel's then the saving face aspect is our subjective view?

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, horatiotheturd said:

Just watched the latest BBC news about vaccine rollout in USA, India and the UK.

The figures being quoted are astounding and the speed at which centres have been set up is phenomenal. 

Nice, simple quick and cheap facilities like drive through ones in America and Salisbury Cathedral in the UK.  The Cathedral seems perfectly fit for purpose having had some basic cubicles installed and volunteers drafted in to give out the jabs.

Bit embarrassing really, while our lot spend fortunes building facilities that will no doubt have new floor to ceiling walls, plastered, and probably papered with custom wallsllpaper and carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it to be opened twice a week, 9:30 to 4 with lunch breaks when they eventually finish it.

I am willing to offer a substantial wager with you that any purpose built IOM vaccination facilities will not be carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it. Or even only be open twice a week 9:30 to 4. Why do you feel the need to denigrate “our lot” by propagating such nonsense?

[TheTeapot]

4 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Apologies If I misunderstood you. When you said "It would probably not, because the lockdown is a political decision." in response to my question how will it assist us getting out of lockdown quicker I took that to mean you agreed it would not stop transmission and therefore lockdown quicker. You are differentiating the two and therefore suggesting that the speed of getting out of lockdown is not directly linked to the speed of transmission.

Fair enough. How will using Dr Glover's Genomic testing help cease the transmission in the IoM quicker than the current lockdown will. In my simple mind, the lockdown stops contacts between people which stops the transmission. If we  all self isolated for a period of 4/5 weeks, impractical I know, transmission is broken and end of the virus.  

I think the lockdown was brought in because our government panicked when they realised that the border restrictions, home isolation, potentially superdooper infectious strain etc all combined with busy christmas pubs could lead to total disaster. That is why I say a political decision.

The straight fact is that fast accurate genomics of the various cases picked up would have told the contact tracing team how many main lines of transmission there had been. This would make their job much easier. In at least one of the briefings Henrietta has said they've got a case with no clear line of transmission. Genomics would help link to other known clusters.

I'll try to explain with a hypothetical. I'm not sure of current numbers, or the finer details so I'll kind of make them up. 40 current active cases, of which 15 are known travelers in isolation, so we can ignore them. Of the other 25 say, 10 are linked in one cluster and 9 in another, through either family or location but no established link between the groups. Then there is another little group of 4 that the contact team can reliably put with each other, and then there are two individual cases with no idea how they have come about. This is where the genomics comes in. Can we put these different groups together or are they 5 different routes of infection? 

If they are all the same then you can be very comfortable that by isolating those people you will be closing that transmission down. But say that group of 4 is different to the others, or its one of the individuals, then you know that there is a good chance it is still out there and more work needs to be done.

Fast genomics is a very valuable tool for the purposes of contact tracing and closing down routes of transmission.

That's my understanding anyway, I hope it makes sense.