IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

Lost Login, as I understand it, genomics gives an audit trail.

[Barlow]

27 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I need to find a gig in about 12 months' time that needs a lot of used plasterboard and 4 x 2 batten....

Yep, crazy.

Used plasterboard is worse than useless, there has been trouble even tipping it in the past.

4 x 2 is rarely worth using again unless you have cheap labour on hand and lots of time. And there's always a risk of putting a saw through a hidden broken plasterboard screw. It just isn't worth the balls-ache recycling it.

Villa Marina Promenade Suite is designed to be partitioned off to various sizes. There are tarpaulins to cover the floor (eg Beer Festival). There may be good reasons not to use it.

But whatever,  4" x 2"  partitioning and plasterboard is wasteful, needless, time-consuming. Crazy.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Barlow

[Lost Login]

38 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well actually it might.  Or more likely it might stop the need to extend lockdown for longer.  I(f say a new case appears and you can link it to an existing cluster that you know about through genomics and pick up all the likely contacts, then you don't need to think about lockdown in the same way you might if it was a new unrelated case appearing from nowhere.

Of course it also helps in such circumstances if you have good track and trace and carry out a lot of testing (in New Zealand anyone with cold symptoms is encouraged to have a test).  And that you provide good support, both financial and otherwise to those who have to isolate - so people don't have to worry about testing positive and so will be more willing to come forward for a test.

But there have been several times over the last few months in New Zealand where individual cases have appeared (usually in those working in isolation facilities) and by tracing the virus back to the person who brought it in, they were able to have life go on as normal.

Thanks. Any new cases now should be travel cases, caught pre lockdown and they are already in isolation or caught from a party you are isolating with. If an individual tests positive for Covid 19 outside that they are going to extend lockdown or whatever. I am not disregarding the use of Genomics but in the present case the IoM appears pretty sure how it got out again and where. There is little evidence of infection from other sources ad even if there was the IoM would do nothing different to break transmission so on this specific instance whether Mrs Glover and IoM Govt are having a fight or a love in it would not appear that it is going to make much practical difference to most of us. That is really one of the things I was trying to understand as the impression that some have given is that the failure to use Mrs Glover's facility was going to cause the lockdown to be considerably extended. I don't get the impression from here that is likely to be the case although what it might have done is given some added reassurance which is no bad thing.

Final question and you may not have any idea but is much of this a moot point as I have no idea what after doing swabs etc the IoM retain and for how long, especially if stuff has been sent to the UK. Even if Mrs Glover & IoM Govt kissed and made up could the sequencing tests actually be run as are the samples she needs still kept. I would have thought they might have been destroyed under fairly tight protocols.  

[TheTeapot]

14 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

If on the other hand we were trying to eliminate by track and trace and only requesting those to lockdown whilst everybody else continued as normal then I totally understand why it would be very useful.

Hooray!

This is why it would be very useful. And the reason to use a local lab is speed. That's obvious. 

Ignore this lockdown and think of the future. They need to do everything they can to avoid another, they've massively pissed everyone off with this one and its completely unsustainable. 

[Andy Onchan]

We still don't have an answer as to why COMIN decided to end testing when they did. Presumably they were advised by the 'medics' that because the virus wasn't in the community it wasn't necessary to continue. Dr. Glover said that was not a good idea. Postulating on whether genome sequencing etc brings any value to the debate now is lost, is background noise and semantics. Had testing continued with the regime that Dr Glover suggested then we probably wouldn't be in lockdown now. 

We need an answer as to why testing was withdrawn in it's entirety.

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

 That is really one of the things I was trying to understand as the impression that some have given is that the failure to use Mrs Glover's facility was going to cause the lockdown to be considerably extended.

The failure to use this facility has contributed to the lockdown being brought in in the first place.

Pricks.

[horatiotheturd]

3 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Thanks. Any new cases now should be travel cases, caught pre lockdown and they are already in isolation or caught from a party you are isolating with. If an individual tests positive for Covid 19 outside that they are going to extend lockdown or whatever. I am not disregarding the use of Genomics but in the present case the IoM appears pretty sure how it got out again and where. There is little evidence of infection from other sources ad even if there was the IoM would do nothing different to break transmission so on this specific instance whether Mrs Glover and IoM Govt are having a fight or a love in it would not appear that it is going to make much practical difference to most of us. That is really one of the things I was trying to understand as the impression that some have given is that the failure to use Mrs Glover's facility was going to cause the lockdown to be considerably extended. I don't get the impression from here that is likely to be the case although what it might have done is given some added reassurance which is no bad thing.

Final question and you may not have any idea but is much of this a moot point as I have no idea what after doing swabs etc the IoM retain and for how long, especially if stuff has been sent to the UK. Even if Mrs Glover & IoM Govt kissed and made up could the sequencing tests actually be run as are the samples she needs still kept. I would have thought they might have been destroyed under fairly tight protocols.  

Todays wasn't a travel case, so its just as likely that tomorrow or the next day will be the same

[Lost Login]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Lost Login, as I understand it, genomics gives an audit trail.

Yes, but is that audit trail one which tells you who has read a specific copy of a book or does it tell you who passed to who after reading. I get the impression it is the first with the odd occasion it is the latter as the sequence changes slightly, but that is only an impression

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

We still don't have an answer as to why COMIN decided to end testing when they did. Presumably they were advised by the 'medics' that because the virus wasn't in the community it wasn't necessary to continue. Dr. Glover said that was not a good idea. Postulating on whether genome sequencing etc brings any value to the debate now is lost, is background noise and semantics. Had testing continued with the regime that Dr Glover suggested then we probably wouldn't be in lockdown now. 

We need an answer as to why testing was withdrawn in it's entirety.

We can postulate why, but what medical advice was obtained and from whom? 

There is another aspect to this and that is the accuracy of the Dr Glover test which reduced false negatives.  

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

 

There is another aspect to this and that is the accuracy of the Dr Glover test which reduced false negatives.  

That's sort of debatable. Semantics maybe but what it did was ensure that the swab had been taken correctly, thus reducing the chances of false results.

Edit - at least thats how I've read it.

Edited January 16, 2021 by TheTeapot

[Gladys]

Just now, TheTeapot said:

That's sort of debatable. Semantics maybe but what it did was ensure that the swab had been taken correctly, thus reducing the chances of false results.

It may be, but my uneducated understanding was that the source of rna for testing could be identified so they could ensure they weren't testing human rna which would give a negative result.  

[Roger Mexico]

56 minutes ago, Gladys said:

There is another important point, and that is the whole genesis of the falling out.  Dr Glover recommended testing before leaving isolation, but that was quickly dropped and, to the lay person, it would appear that if that testing had happened, we wouldn't be locked down now as the positive case would have been picked up before going into the wild. 

I seem to remember that Rachel Glover's point was a wider one that just that.  It was that Ashford seemed to be not listening to any scientific advice - not just from her but from anyone, including people like Ewart.  Given some of the nonsense that Ashford has been spouting in recent months - not just the odd misunderstanding, but consistently - it seems likely that situation has gotten worse if anything.

It also has to be said that @rachomics wasn't a lone voice in calling for testing during isolation - though she may have been one of the most persuasive.  Many others on here and elsewhere (including some who were agreeing on nothing else) were also doing so and it culminated in that November Tynwald vote.  And the practice and experience of other countries showed it was the right policy. 

So they can't dismiss her as some 'lone voice calling in the wilderness', who just happened to to right, she was also representing the consensus of the subject everywhere except the DHSC.  So perhaps rather than worrying about the hurt feelings of their middle managers, we should be calling for them to either admit error or go.  Because the next decision they make may be fatal.

[Roger Mexico]

57 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

I noticed they had refloored Salisbury cathedral as well.  Obviously doesn't matter if it costs a few grand and hold things up for a few days as long as the floor is nice ffs.

To be fair Salisbury Cathedral is a building of great beauty and antiquity whose precious medieval fabric must be carefully protected.

The Airport ...isn't.

[horatiotheturd]

1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

To be fair Salisbury Cathedral is a building of great beauty and antiquity whose precious medieval fabric must be carefully protected.

The Airport ...isn't.

Not relevant to though is it?

Just get it done, and I thought we were talking about presto?

[Lost Login]

21 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

We still don't have an answer as to why COMIN decided to end testing when they did. Presumably they were advised by the 'medics' that because the virus wasn't in the community it wasn't necessary to continue. Dr. Glover said that was not a good idea. Postulating on whether genome sequencing etc brings any value to the debate now is lost, is background noise and semantics. Had testing continued with the regime that Dr Glover suggested then we probably wouldn't be in lockdown now. 

We need an answer as to why testing was withdrawn in it's entirety.

I agree. Mrs Glover's background and position give her views more weight than the like of most of us on this website but simple logic was all that was required to understand that if you wanted to be pretty sure a new arrival could not infect others in the community then you needed to test on 1, 7 and 13 or something close to if they lived with others. If you self isolate on your own day 7 testing is probably pretty irrelevant.  If you share accommodation then testing on day 1 & 13 is no guarantee. The initial carrier at day 13 may have ceased to be positive and if they have passed on another person in the property that person may still be showing negative. That is pretty logical.

The IoM Govt has, over time, changed the rules as its view of the threat has changed.  It did try enforcing self-isolation at the Commis but many kicked off. Before the students came back at Christmas they changed the rules so that a whole household had to self isolate and not just the traveller. You can no longer isolate with others unless they travelled with you but I am not sure if that changed pre or post the new cases. People are not happy with, the most high profile one being the guy who can not stay with his wife who had a heart attack. If only he had thought of travelling to see and be with her in Liverpool. Other times you could leave your property for a walk whilst isolating after travelling, other times you could not

Various comments have been made with regard to withdrawing the testing on the 7th day as if that was a relaxing of restrictions. From memory the 7 day testing was introduced to allow people who had and passed the test to leave their house for an hour a day for a walk. The test was voluntary and if you did not have you had to stay in your property for the full 14 days. I think when they took away the voluntary test after 7 days and said everybody must stay in their property for the full 14 days Govt thought they were tightening and not relaxing restrictions.

All the above is to do with basic Covid 19 testing and not the Genomic "testing". At times I think the two get confused or interlinked.