Cambon Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Banker said: Please stop talking negative bollocks, it’s been widely reported that you have a lot of protection within a few weeks of first doses, as Italy & others roll out vaccine the cases will fall like the UKhttps://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-study-finds-strong-immune-response-following-covid-19-vaccination Banker, there can spin what they want. The majority of those whom have been vaccinated have also been shielding. So little or no exposure to the virus. We are yet to see what effect the vaccines have. Nothing negative, just simple reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Nom de plume said: This type of talk is like Kryptonite to the Mary’s, just stop it ffs! Back behind the sofas people, as you were. Given that natural immunity may only have a short 'shelf' life you can understand why UKG is keen to get an extra jab into arms in the autumn. Meantime, most of those younger active folk within the population that have had COVID will have some natural immunity protection, pending the roll out of jabs for their age own group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Looks like we need to to peel with our rubbish as lazy Douglas sods not opening yet!! https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/western-amenity-site-reopening-tomorrow/?fbclid=IwAR27cNnnzpOTi3050u3KjhV50EV9VMBnJIyIGB-R7_F2jWbkLMZQz_YeAMQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, madmanxpilot said: I think you might be missing the point a little. There is no doubt that vaccines are beginning to have an impact, and that many folk are alive today because they have that protection. The ONS data you linked refers to excess deaths. Now, just think about this next sentence with an open mind.....If the vaccines had stopped all deaths by Covid and everything else had stayed equal, then the number of deaths this year should be the same as any year, not less. So, the question before us is why are there less deaths at the moment than the five year average. It can't be due to vaccines for Covid. The likely reasons are that some of the vulnerable have died already, or that the measures in force to restrict the spread of Covid are having a secondary effect of preventing deaths from other things such as the flu. How many people normally die of regular flu? Surely if the older folks have been isolating / shielding, the regular flu can't circulate the same either? Wouldn't that lessen the numbers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Cambon said: Banker, there can spin what they want. The majority of those whom have been vaccinated have also been shielding. So little or no exposure to the virus. We are yet to see what effect the vaccines have. Nothing negative, just simple reality. We are yet to see what effect the vaccines have. Nothing negative, just simple reality. Really ! Why do you think the numbers of those dying from Covid in the UK have dropped so dramatically? Edited March 30, 2021 by cheesypeas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, cheesypeas said: How many people normally die of regular flu? And how many with flu or of flu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, cheesypeas said: How many people normally die of regular flu? Surely if the older folks have been isolating / shielding, the regular flu can't circulate the same either? Wouldn't that lessen the numbers? Exactly the point - the fact that deaths are lower than the five year average is almost certainly due to the fact that other illnesses such as flu are being held at bay by the measures put in place to protect against Covid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, cheesypeas said: We are yet to see what effect the vaccines have. Nothing negative, just simple reality. Really ! Why do you think the numbers of those dying from in the UK have dropped so dramatically? He’s chatting wham. He’s implying it’s because of prolonged lockdown restrictions yet cases of the Kent variant in Western Europe are spiralling out of control. The European Commission were slow out of the blocks procuring vaccine & these countries and their people are going to pay a very heavy price in terms of loss of life & financial losses. Edited March 30, 2021 by Nom de plume 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 minute ago, madmanxpilot said: Exactly the point - the fact that deaths are lower than the five year average is almost certainly due to the fact that other illnesses such as flu are being held at bay by the measures put in place to protect against Covid. The Covid Vaccines will only prevent Covid deaths. If they had a 100% success rate and everybody had been vaccinated, we should be seeing death rates in line with previous years, as if Covid didn't exist if you like. We are seeing numbers down slightly though - so that cannot be attributed to Covid Vaccines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: Exactly the point - the fact that deaths are lower than the five year average is almost certainly due to the fact that other illnesses such as flu are being held at bay by the measures put in place to protect against Covid. But many, many more have died from untreated diseases/ ailments eg cancer, heart attacks, liver/kidney issues etc with waiting lists absolutely massive. These excess cancers etc deaths will more than cover those elderly not dying from flu because they’ve stayed in. c5000 extra heart deaths just to mid October so say 7/8000 minimum for this disease Health and Social CareCommittee report Almost 5,000 more people have died from heart problems than would be expected since the start of the coronavirus pandemic, a charity has warned. The British Heart Foundation (BHF) told the PA news agency that there were 4,622 “excess deaths” from heart and circulatory diseases from the start of the pandemic to mid-October. Edited March 30, 2021 by Banker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: And how many with flu or of flu There's actually a graph of this on the previous page to your comment. In the vast majority of cases influenza/pneumonia is not the underlying/main cause of death. Those who have spent the last year going on about 'all those who die of the flu' fail to realise that (a) the figures include pneumonia as well and so may not even be a viral infection and (b) for the vast majority of those deaths 'from flu' it is only a contributing factor, not the main cause. Ironically all the things they claim for Covid, which aren't true, are true for flu, where they ignore it. This information will not change what they say in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Banker said: But many, many more have died from untreated diseases/ ailments eg cancer, heart attacks, liver/kidney issues etc with waiting lists absolutely massive. These excess cancers etc deaths will more than cover those elderly not dying from flu because they’ve stayed in The problem has been access to diagnosis more than treatment- so I think this is a problem likely stored up for the future rather than one showing up in current death rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 minute ago, madmanxpilot said: The problem has been access to diagnosis more than treatment- so I think this is a problem likely stored up for the future rather than one showing up in current death rates. No it’s already showing up, see my post above, BHF say 5000 excess heart deaths just to mid October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 38 minutes ago, cheesypeas said: We are yet to see what effect the vaccines have. Nothing negative, just simple reality. Really ! Why do you think the numbers of those dying from Covid in the UK have dropped so dramatically? Because the most vulnerable have been shielding for three month. Lockdowns work, if they are adhered to. Same reason our figures have plummeted. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Banker said: No it’s already showing up, see my post above, BHF say 5000 excess heart deaths just to mid October. Sad. Let's assume that Covid didn't exist - let's take it out of the equation totally because the vaccines have worked a miracle and nullified it totally. This will remove Covid as a direct cause of death in the comparison. All that remains are the increased deaths caused by reduced healthcare and the reduced deaths caused by other benefits of the Covid restrictions. Why are we seeing less deaths now than the five year average? Edited March 30, 2021 by madmanxpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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