IOM Covid removing restrictions

[AcousticallyChallenged]

7 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

The clinically vulnerable will still have their flu jabs plus the autumn CV top ups. Outside of that what are they being left to fend for? Genuine question. The only 'new' disease that has been added to the list is CV and that's being dealt with. Many, many more people will die of heart related and influenza/.pneumonia diseases than with CV.

 

6 hours ago, oooohtony said:

Great post John.  My thoughts exactly.

Time for personal choice answers personal responsibility.

In reality that is how it has always been for the vulnerable amongst us.

The only difference now is that this particular very small risk was a much bigger risk last year, and not everyone seems capable of actually interpreting and measuring the greatly reduced risk we have now, and aligning it against all the other risks which are now similar or greater - and have always been there.

Taking transplant patients as an example, so far it looks like in nearly 50% of them, they show no immune response, after both doses. 

Doctors have advised them to treat themselves if they’ve had no vaccination. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/07/994260770/vaccination-against-covid-does-not-mean-immunity-for-people-with-organ-transplan

When you have speculation of 50-100k COVID cases a day, but no legal basis anymore for shielding, what do you do?

[Annoymouse]

Lockdowns should always have been a last resort, the vast majority of countries introduced restrictions first and gradually tightened restrictions as the risks grew higher, once again we were one of the only countries to go from no restrictions to a lockdown, then from no lockdown to zero restrictions and that’s happened consistently with every lockdown that we’ve had and the end of this last one was been no different.

You reap what you sow, it’s now a case of survival of the fittest.

[oooohtony]

28 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

 

Taking transplant patients as an example, so far it looks like in nearly 50% of them, they show no immune response, after both doses. 

Doctors have advised them to treat themselves if they’ve had no vaccination. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/07/994260770/vaccination-against-covid-does-not-mean-immunity-for-people-with-organ-transplan

When you have speculation of 50-100k COVID cases a day, but no legal basis anymore for shielding, what do you do?

Would those patients have had an immune response to flu, which is widespread in the population every winter?

I really don’t see why people are getting hung up on people being vulnerable to one virus, when the same people have bee vulnerable to others for years and just managed (apart from the thousands who die every year from Flu)

I am not saying COVID is flu.  I am saying that if you are vulnerable to one you are vulnerable to the other.

I will go one step further and say that in 12 months from now in the UK and IOM, more people will have died from flu and pneumonia than COVID in the previous year.  Yet people never shielded before.

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, oooohtony said:

Would those patients have had an immune response to flu, which is widespread in the population every winter?

I really don’t see why people are getting hung up on people being vulnerable to one virus, when the same people have bee vulnerable to others for years and just managed (apart from the thousands who die every year from Flu)

I am not saying COVID is flu.  I am saying that if you are vulnerable to one you are vulnerable to the other.

I will go one step further and say that in 12 months from now in the UK and IOM, more people will have died from flu and pneumonia than COVID in the previous year.  Yet people never shielded before.

 

The mortality rate of COVID without vaccination on hospitalised patients is pegged at anything between 4-10x higher than flu, depending on where you look. 

And, with the prevalence of COVID rising again in the UK, you’re both far more likely to be exposed to it, and far more likely to catch it. 

So yes, whilst caution abounds during flu season, your odds of catching it are much lower, and the flu jab is known to be much more effective in transplant patients, than data is showing the COVID jabs to be.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18162092/

[wrighty]

25 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

The mortality rate of COVID without vaccination on hospitalised patients is pegged at anything between 4-10x higher than flu, depending on where you look. 

And, with the prevalence of COVID rising again in the UK, you’re both far more likely to be exposed to it, and far more likely to catch it. 

So yes, whilst caution abounds during flu season, your odds of catching it are much lower, and the flu jab is known to be much more effective in transplant patients, than data is showing the COVID jabs to be.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18162092/

We’ve all had flu.  Even transplant patients will have some immunity from prior exposure.  Nobody had had covid before December 2019 as far as we know, and nobody here before March 2020. 

[Annoymouse]

31 minutes ago, oooohtony said:

I will go one step further and say that in 12 months from now in the UK and IOM, more people will have died from flu and pneumonia than COVID in the previous year.  Yet people never shielded before.

 

That all hinges on vaccine resistance, if it becomes vaccine resistant we will be back to square one, I would imagine a good opportunity for that to happen is by mixing large numbers of unvaccinated and vaccinated folk together and if it doesn’t happen in the next 6 months then it’s not going to happen and you will of course be right.

[oooohtony]

“"More thought needs given to whether vaccinating young children in the rich world is as important and ethically justified as vaccinating key workers and the most vulnerable in developing countries."
 

I would agree with the above.

Can we as a rich country really sit happily vaccinating healthy young people when those jabs could be doing much more good in other countries?

An interesting moral conundrum for all those healthy young Mums giving it “somebody think of the children” when it comes to a fairly harmless virus running though an age group who really aren’t impacted by it, when those same doses could actually save lives in countries that Karen on Facebook couldn’t even point out on a map.

Multiple times the number of deaths in the UK from COVID worldwide from starvation and other ailments that we just vaccinate against.

Typical case of out of sight out of mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57694918

 

[chris4652009]

[chris4652009]

The vaccine is still doing it's job...keeping folk out of hospital 

[TerryFuchwit]

1 minute ago, chris4652009 said:

The vaccine is still doing it's job...keeping folk out of hospital 

Sounds familiar 

4 deaths?   

[chris4652009]

3 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

 

4 deaths?   

Since Feb  

[Andy Onchan]

Here's the latest on antibody estimates: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/22june2021

[The Chief]

23 minutes ago, chris4652009 said:

love this slide, its like the senior CS had a meeting decided which stats might be relevant then gave it to a bunch of toddlers to come up with the design.

the 1217 highlighted in the centre is nothing more than scare mongering as is the death figure.

the only bits that are relevant right now are the 50/7/0 thats all.

it's disgusting that someone probably very highly paid came up with this shit and someone probably much more highly paid approved it.

[chris4652009]

1 minute ago, The Chief said:

love this slide, its like the senior CS had a meeting decided which stats might be relevant then gave it to a bunch of toddlers to come up with the design.

the 1217 highlighted in the centre is nothing more than scare mongering as is the death figure.

the only bits that are relevant right now are the 50/7/0 thats all.

it's disgusting that someone probably very highly paid came up with this shit and someone probably much more highly paid approved it.

The trouble is most people don't read things before reacting....see our friend Terryfukwit above! 

[Cambon]

25 minutes ago, The Chief said:

love this slide, its like the senior CS had a meeting decided which stats might be relevant then gave it to a bunch of toddlers to come up with the design.

the 1217 highlighted in the centre is nothing more than scare mongering as is the death figure.

the only bits that are relevant right now are the 50/7/0 thats all.

it's disgusting that someone probably very highly paid came up with this shit and someone probably much more highly paid approved it.

That 1217 figure is now irrelevant. Ashy said at the beginning of the second wave that all the 2020 data was now redundant and all that mattered was the current (February) data. Now we are heading into a third wave, I would suggest everything prior to 20 June is irrelevant. 

As I said from the start, it's going just like Spanish flu, which was four waves.