IOM Covid removing restrictions

[the stinking enigma]

Ah, ok. Thanks. I wish i could just look at the figures and accept them at face value. I'm just expecting games all the time. It's not a good way to think, i know.

[Andy Onchan]

33 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

No it's a stupid thing to do for the reasons given above.

Personal responsibility and the only people risk from small , shared accommodation are those who chose to put themselves in there.

What about the wardens?

[the stinking enigma]

Vigilance.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

9 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Vigilance.

...against the invisible enemy. Mind bending stuff.

[NoTailT]

17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

What about the wardens?

What about all the hospitality staff that forced businesses to shut and lose money?

[Ramseyboi]

30 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

What about the wardens?

What about them?  
 

If they have chosen not to get vaccinated then that is their lookout.  It’s not down to the rest of us to protect them.

[Hmmmm]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I was thinking as much about the testing where it appears there is only a budget for 200 (PCR) tests a day, but CoMin and the CO have certainly not been helping.  The lack of any coordination and planning (which is what the CO is supposed to be for) is the real problem though.

Coordination and planning -  This has always been the issue and it is even more amplified since Comin decided to down tools and leave it to everyone's personal responsibility.    The confusion this caused after such draconian measures was to be expected and has resulted in  a vacuous void of strategy from Quayle, Ashford and the assembled cohorts.  Can anyone say what the current strategy is for dealing or mitigating this pandemic? Track and trace - which should be top notch is whittled down, testing is at a premium, LFT are the new go to,  an election looming and it appears the current incumbents are frozen as to any reasonable response.  Where else is this policy being pursued? There seems a complete lack of ownership being displayed by Comin.

[Barlow]

The Isle of Man Government has at its disposal a huge amount of data,. Questions recently asked above such as have the recent hospital admissions been double vaccinated, what is the incidence of face coverings amongst the afflicted  (eg are they 'face nappy' deniers),etc.

IoMG should also have a scientific basis to indicate where and how the virus is being transmitted (eg pubs, restaurants? Walking down the street? From family, visitors, recent arrivals? etc).

I have to assume the messages coming from IoMG have taken such data into consideration. Or am I being naive and IoMG are just mainly winging it?

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Barlow

[Andy Onchan]

56 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

What about them?  
 

If they have chosen not to get vaccinated then that is their lookout.  It’s not down to the rest of us to protect them.

I'm not saying it is and nor am I suggesting that they're not vaccinated (I've never said anything about that at all... you've just introduced that, not me).

In principle I would agree with you if the wardens were anywhere but on an Island where you just can't 999 and expect an ambulance to turn up in 10 minutes when someone gets into breathing difficulties.

I'm not going to make a big issue out of it.... I just think that the 2+2 regime is sensible given the location. You don;t. Let's just leave it at that shall we??

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, NoTailT said:

What about all the hospitality staff that forced businesses to shut and lose money?

They're not stuck on an Island where a 999 call gets you an ambulance in 10 mins.

[quilp]

1 minute ago, Barlow said:

The Isle of Man Government has at its disposal a huge amount of data. Questions recently asked above such as have the recent hospital admissions been double vaccinated, what is the incidence of face coverings amongst the afflicted (e.g. are they 'face nappy' deniers?),etc.

That sort of info would probably take time to collate, even in the hands of real experts. It's early days yet with this outbreak/wave but I'd be interested to know.

1 minute ago, Barlow said:

IoMG should also have a scientific basis to indicate where and how the virus is being transmitted (eg pubs, restaurants? Walking down the street? From family? etc).

As we've seen, the scientific basis/advice, at least some of it, has on occasion played second-fiddle to political agenda. At the same, in response to your examples above I'd hope that most people are aware of how it's transmitted and the emphasis that vaccination, masks, personal hygiene and distancing can be effective in reducing transmission should continue. What alternatives are there for the genuinely vulnerable and the just plain scared?

1 minute ago, Barlow said:

I have to assume the messages coming from IoMG have taken such data into consideration.

It would be encouraging to assume so but we're very much on a 'need-to-know' basis and IoMG might consider that sort of info superfluous or irrelevant as a press release, rather than heighten the paranoia of the electorate further.

1 minute ago, Barlow said:

Or am I being naive and IoMG are just mainly winging it?

Wouldn't say you're being naive, we've had a few examples of government winging it during this pandemic, largely ignored or forgotten in the mists of time by the GMP.

 

[rachomics]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:05 PM, offshoremanxman said:

Some people seem to want to hang on to the covid emergency and the Cassandra-like warnings for as long as possible as underlines the social media notoriety it’s brought them. Even Rachel Glover seems to be hanging on by her fingertips to the doom predictions as it feeds the audience she’s acquired in the last year and a half. The trick seems to be when to let go and many people let go of the fear months and months ago. 

You're mistaking scientific evidence/data for fear. A significant proportion of our population are still unvaccinated and the disease hasn't changed with regards to hospitalisations and deaths in the unvaccinated since the first lockdown in April 2020. It's not over yet and if there's one thing I can do to help mitigate this shit show, it's to use my followers to spread accurate messaging. 

 

[wrighty]

3 hours ago, WTF said:

i wonder how may of the people in nobles with covid are double jabbed ?   i bet we never get told.

I've been looking into this today, and this might turn into a long post.  If you're expecting an answer as simple as x out 19 then sorry, can't give you one.  Some of the people in hospital with covid are double vaccinated, some are not.

It's actually very difficult to answer the wider question of who is in hospital with covid, and who is in because of it.  There are obvious cases at each end of the spectrum.  For example (and this, like all cases here, is fictitious - any resemblance to actual people in hospital is coincidental), if a middle aged man is admitted with a broken ankle sustained while out running and happens to test positive, but had no covid related symptoms, we'd all agree he's in 'with' covid but 'because of' a broken ankle.  If another middle aged man is admitted due to shortness of breath, low oxygen saturations and a hacking cough, who tests positive, we'd all probably agree he's in 'because of' covid as well as 'with' covid.

They're simple examples.  What about an elderly nursing home resident who comes in after a bump on the head having fallen over.  Tests positive.  Was the fall due to covid, or not?  Arguable either way.  Whatever the decision, the covid positivity means they can't be discharged back to the home until testing negative.  How about a patient with multiple medical problems including heart failure and diabetes, double vaccinated, but comes in as they're a bit dehydrated and confused due to the hot weather. Tests positive, but no symptoms at all in the chest that they don't normally have, with their normal oxygen saturation.  Does it count or not?

So, although it is possible to say out of the 19 patients in hospital how many are vaxxed and how many aren't, I'm not sure as a single figure it is that helpful, without the sort of context above that I've just invented, and to do so in real life risks giving away medical information which as we know is not the done thing.

Some themes that I can divulge - Unvaccinated patients are generally sicker than vaccinated.  Vaccinated patients are generally older, and more likely to be admitted for reasons that are not purely down to covid.  And as we've seen in the UK data, for patients in hospital with covid, a higher proportion are unvaccinated than in the general population.  And we can't use generic length of stay figures, because 'dischargability' is influenced by covid status and discharge destination.  A patient may be well enough to go after a couple of days, but may have nowhere to go so stays in.

[AlanShimmin]

1 hour ago, rachomics said:

You're mistaking scientific evidence/data for fear. A significant proportion of our population are still unvaccinated and the disease hasn't changed with regards to hospitalisations and deaths in the unvaccinated since the first lockdown in April 2020. It's not over yet and if there's one thing I can do to help mitigate this shit show, it's to use my followers to spread accurate messaging. 

 

It's never going to be over though. You surely have a responsibility to your followers to help them realise that? 

This shit show doesn't end, it's not a bad dream we can wake up from. So as far as living with it, for all the noise you make about the failures of Comin, this truly is living with it.  

It's shit, people will continue to die from it and I hate that. But there truly is no other way. We can't be in a cycle of perpetual lockdowns or fairly tales of zero covid. 

 

Sadly it's time so of the Dooministas on IOM Facebook woke up to that fact. 

[Nom de plume]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I've been looking into this today, and this might turn into a long post.  If you're expecting an answer as simple as x out 19 then sorry, can't give you one.  Some of the people in hospital with covid are double vaccinated, some are not.

It's actually very difficult to answer the wider question of who is in hospital with covid, and who is in because of it.  There are obvious cases at each end of the spectrum.  For example (and this, like all cases here, is fictitious - any resemblance to actual people in hospital is coincidental), if a middle aged man is admitted with a broken ankle sustained while out running and happens to test positive, but had no covid related symptoms, we'd all agree he's in 'with' covid but 'because of' a broken ankle.  If another middle aged man is admitted due to shortness of breath, low oxygen saturations and a hacking cough, who tests positive, we'd all probably agree he's in 'because of' covid as well as 'with' covid.

They're simple examples.  What about an elderly nursing home resident who comes in after a bump on the head having fallen over.  Tests positive.  Was the fall due to covid, or not?  Arguable either way.  Whatever the decision, the covid positivity means they can't be discharged back to the home until testing negative.  How about a patient with multiple medical problems including heart failure and diabetes, double vaccinated, but comes in as they're a bit dehydrated and confused due to the hot weather. Tests positive, but no symptoms at all in the chest that they don't normally have, with their normal oxygen saturation.  Does it count or not?

So, although it is possible to say out of the 19 patients in hospital how many are vaxxed and how many aren't, I'm not sure as a single figure it is that helpful, without the sort of context above that I've just invented, and to do so in real life risks giving away medical information which as we know is not the done thing.

Some themes that I can divulge - Unvaccinated patients are generally sicker than vaccinated.  Vaccinated patients are generally older, and more likely to be admitted for reasons that are not purely down to covid.  And as we've seen in the UK data, for patients in hospital with covid, a higher proportion are unvaccinated than in the general population.  And we can't use generic length of stay figures, because 'dischargability' is influenced by covid status and discharge destination.  A patient may be well enough to go after a couple of days, but may have nowhere to go so stays in.

This!