Roger Mexico Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, AlanShimmin said: True herd immunity was a Zero Covid Crew myth - they actually believed it was possible. That's literally the opposite of the case. By definition someone who believed in zero Covid is interested in eliminating it completely - either locally or globally. That requires a lot of action. In contrast the advocates of herd immunity such as Boris and his chums were advocating doing as little as possible claiming that everything would magically be OK. In practice they probably hoped that it would thin out the lower orders and kill off a few elderly relatives who would leave them money. In reality they ended up in ICU and then panicked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, wrighty said: A bit more than a 5-minute read... The article is basically a mathematical model of masks, rather than a summary of current research (although it draws parameters from recent publications). The conclusion is that mask efficacy depends on levels of virus in the environment, such that it's incorrect to say that 'masks are 50% effective' or whatever. In high levels of virus, masks are almost useless, but in lower levels where viral transmission is relatively low, masks have a proportionally greater effect on the likelihood of transmission. It also concludes that for the highest efficacy, mask usage should be universal - source control of the infected plus protection of the uninfected - and they need to be worn correctly. I'd still like to see a pragmatic study on mask usage that takes into account people fiddling with them, popping them under the chin to have a fag, constant slippage under the nose, incomplete usage etc. Yeah, the 5 minute thing was an inducement to link to the article. Surely wearing a mask consequently leads to lower levels of transmission by lowering the level of circulating virus. I would say that our covid ward probably has a considerable level of airborne virus circulating, or at least the probability of, so the masks worn by the staff must be better than "almost useless", the article states that the N95 mask barriers up to 90% of transmission and any level of obstruction it seems, is better than none. Whatever... It's a science in itself. I'd welcome a pragmatic study also. You only have to look at the global flip-flopping on mask-wearing to see that there's confusion amongst the ranks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, quilp said: Yeah, the 5 minute thing was an inducement to link to the article. Surely wearing a mask consequently leads to lower levels of transmission by lowering the level of circulating virus. I would say that our covid ward probably has a considerable level of airborne virus circulating, or at least the probability of, so the masks worn by the staff must be better than "almost useless", the article states that the N95 mask barriers up to 90% of transmission and any level of obstruction it seems, is better than none. Whatever... It's a science in itself. I'd welcome a pragmatic study also. You only have to look at the global flip-flopping on mask-wearing to see that there's confusion amongst the ranks. "almost useless" is based on Figure 1A - whether that represents a real world situation, or is just in the model isn't specified. N95/FFP3 masks (much more effective - no argument there - and also extremely uncomfortable to wear for more than a short period) are used in the highest risk situation such as ITU, or the operating theatre if you're working on a confirmed covid patient. On the general ward, the article would be arguing for getting the patients to wear masks as well as staff, if you want the highest efficacy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Therein lies a rub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, wrighty said: "almost useless" is based on Figure 1A - whether that represents a real world situation, or is just in the model isn't specified. N95/FFP3 masks (much more effective - no argument there - and also extremely uncomfortable to wear for more than a short period) are used in the highest risk situation such as ITU, or the operating theatre if you're working on a confirmed covid patient. On the general ward, the article would be arguing for getting the patients to wear masks as well as staff, if you want the highest efficacy. I attended hospital recently with an ffp3 mask and was forced to remove it and replace it with a standard hospital issue one offering less protection. The reason given was 'Them's the rules'. Would there be a medical reason behind this? Or is it just a case of slavishly following policy to the letter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, cissolt said: I attended hospital recently with an ffp3 mask and was forced to remove it and replace it with a standard hospital issue one offering less protection. The reason given was 'Them's the rules'. Would there be a medical reason behind this? Or is it just a case of slavishly following policy to the letter? Same here. Was told to remove the N95 I was wearing and put on one of the flimsiest masks that had ever been manufactured. You could see through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, cissolt said: I attended hospital recently with an ffp3 mask and was forced to remove it and replace it with a standard hospital issue one offering less protection. The reason given was 'Them's the rules'. Would there be a medical reason behind this? Or is it just a case of slavishly following policy to the letter? It’s the same if you’re wearing the disposable gloves, must be removed & the sanitizer used. Exactly the same policy in UK hospitals or it was in Liverpool last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Banker said: It’s the same if you’re wearing the disposable gloves, must be removed & the sanitizer used. Exactly the same policy in UK hospitals or it was in Liverpool last month. SOP's are there to guarantee compliance of operational practices by all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Banker said: It’s the same if you’re wearing the disposable gloves, must be removed & the sanitizer used. Exactly the same policy in UK hospitals or it was in Liverpool last month. That kinda makes sense though. Idea is to be sanitary. Lots of people seem to think disposable masks can be reworn lots too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Banker said: It’s the same if you’re wearing the disposable gloves Why on earth would you be wearing disposable gloves? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Why on earth would you be wearing disposable gloves? Banker comes in wearing his periwinkles after his community service doing council gardens. Edited August 21, 2021 by NoTailT 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 57 minutes ago, cissolt said: I attended hospital recently with an ffp3 mask and was forced to remove it and replace it with a standard hospital issue one offering less protection. The reason given was 'Them's the rules'. Would there be a medical reason behind this? Or is it just a case of slavishly following policy to the letter? Same here, last April. And I was double-masked with a surgical mask underneath the FFP3! Both fresh from the wrapper which the bloke (in a bus driver's uniform) had seen me do! When I brought this to his attention, that he'd just watched me mask-up his answer was "the rules are the rules" So I had to remove both masks, dump the surgical mask I'd just fitted, fit an exact same 3-layer surgical mask he'd given me and put the original N95 back on. Little point in pushing the issue. Probably the latter of your suggestions so understandable from his point of view. Irritating nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Why on earth would you be wearing disposable gloves? I wasn’t but a couple came in with the big masks, gloves etc & got told to remove, the woman was a bit shirty but complied ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 All we have a few of us coming over in a couple of months, we've all been double jabbed, my question is are we going to be welcome there or like someone replied last week stay at home you covid carrying deceased f --ers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Sorry that should say diseased f--kers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.