quilp Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, momo65 said: Behind a pay wall so no comment possible Besides that momo, what are your thoughts on, had the so-called 'fear factor' not been so publicly propagated could outcomes have possibly been worse? Was the push perhaps a necessary evil to get the population to sit up and listen? I can see the logic. Covid the bogeyman at the door, an'that. The mass-psychological effect of putting a collective, existential fear of the bogeyman into populations has worked its magic countless times historically, whether it be the threat of the hun, 'reds-under-the-bed', Jews, Islamist terrorism et al. The level of fear induced will be comparative to the level of compliance. What say ye..? Edited November 2, 2021 by quilp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 1 hour ago, quilp said: The tactic was ultimately deliberate, and now there exists a large portion of the population living in a 'futureshock' unable to escape the choreographed paranoia, because that's what it was. Is there actually any proof of this? Other than the ravings of various newspaper columnists denouncing imaginary enemies in their usual way. While safely working from home themselves of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 According to the Nations Propaganda Mouthpiece this morning, Alf and the Gang has decreed that there will a review into Covid as opposed to a public inquiry. This is on the grounds of he costs involved with a public inquiry. The expression lessons will be learned was also trotted out. I can see much anger at what will be perceived as a Government whitewash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 1 hour ago, 2112 said: According to the Nations Propaganda Mouthpiece this morning, Alf and the Gang has decreed that there will a review into Covid as opposed to a public inquiry. This is on the grounds of he costs involved with a public inquiry. The expression lessons will be learned was also trotted out. I can see much anger at what will be perceived as a Government whitewash. I don't see what a public enquiry would gain. It was an unprecedented event that no-one in power had the experience to deal with. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 "Vaccines on their own aren't enough" they cry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 11 hours ago, TheTeapot said: If you turn off your javascript (your adblocker can do this or your browser settings) the telegraph paywall goes away. Anyway, you know what it's about. It's behavioral scientists doing bad things. 👍That is the most useful piece of information I have got from here. In fact a near revelation. Thank you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 3 hours ago, TheTeapot said: "Vaccines on their own aren't enough" they cry... Why do those figures start on the 2nd of january? I wouldnt have thought there were many people double vaxxed (and +2 weeks) until at least early march. There were though quite a lot of deaths in those months 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Why do those figures start on the 2nd of january? I wouldnt have thought there were many people double vaxxed (and +2 weeks) until at least early march. There were though quite a lot of deaths in those months It's a headline figure. There are probably some other graphics somewhere looking at single vaxxed too. January makes reasonable sense as they started the programme in December in the UK, and it coincides with the first working day of the calendar year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 13 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Is there actually any proof of this? Other than the ravings of various newspaper columnists denouncing imaginary enemies in their usual way. While safely working from home themselves of course. Covid is not some "imaginary enemy." Uk government, PHE, et al, realised measures weren't in place soon enough. The strongly fearful and fatalistic warnings regarding the consequences of non-compliance had to be profound and continuous. The future health of the nation and infrastructure was a guessing-game and a lead needed to be taken. The intense campaign to make the population sit up and listen couldn't be some ad-hoc affair, no pussy-footing around; get the message across outlining the enormity of the situation they could possibly face if they didn't toe the line. Elevating the fear element and emphasising the imminent danger was the right thing to do, for time was of the essence, and it worked. There was the necessary reassurance that all stops had been pulled, that a vaccine would be available in short order, that it would all work out if we complied. Most people did so and we are where we are, more enlightened, in tune and getting on with our lives. Most of us, anyway. It's an inescapable fact that the campaign has left many people still fearful but that's a natural reaction and an essential part of the balancing-act in keeping people on their toes, after all, we're still in the middle of a pandemic and complacency can/will have consequences. A little paranoia can be good for you. Don't know why you've brought up "raving newspaper columnists denouncing imaginary enemies in their usual way" in the context of my post... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 Case numbers continue to fall... https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/covid-numbers-continue-to-fall/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 17 hours ago, quilp said: It's hard to estimate the effect on cases had the fear factor NOT been promulgated and widespread. Would human behaviour have been different in terms of societal, cautionary-compliance of government directives had there not been this fear factor? Would transmission have spiralled out of control, hospitals unable to cope, civil unrest? It was just as likely, imo. If something similar were to happen again within the next 30 years or less, then I wonder if the current 16-45 age groups will stick two fingers up to the government over compliance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 59 minutes ago, quilp said: The intense campaign to make the population sit up and listen couldn't be some ad-hoc affair, no pussy-footing around; get the message across outlining the enormity of the situation they could possibly face if they didn't toe the line. The 'fear factor' was massively over-egged and manipulated to comply with policies that were being made up on the hoof and founded on data that was questionable at best and possibly overtly deceitful viz the highly selective graphs that the Witty and Van Tam show used on frequent occasions. How can you possibly justify the lies and deceits laid upon a supposedly free, democratic nation by its own government? No conspiracy is needed. The virus is real, it was identified as hazardous to certain elements of society who required protection and that is as far as it had to go. The subjugation of 99% - yes NINETY-NINE percent - of the rest of the population to completely draconian and dictatorial control was not justified or excusable. The mental damage and irrational fear needlessly instilled into millions together with the untold economic damage is far greater than you glibly brush over in your previous post. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I agree with what you're saying but glib? There's nothing glib about the policies that were introduced and the effects on some of the population can't be under-estimated. Best not sensationalise things though. Did you read my post wrong or something? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 5 hours ago, quilp said: Don't know why you've brought up "raving newspaper columnists denouncing imaginary enemies in their usual way" in the context of my post... Because I was only replying to the sentence I quoted: The tactic was ultimately deliberate, and now there exists a large portion of the population living in a 'futureshock' unable to escape the choreographed paranoia, because that's what it was. rather than the whole post, much of which I agreed with. The earlier modelling of the pandemic was indeed wrong because public compliance with measures was underestimated, for example. But there's absolutely no proof that 'a large proportion' of the population' are living in fear - or ever have been. There may be the odd individual on Facebook, but frankly there always is. There are those who may be continuing to semi-isolate or are taking additional measures, but these are usually people who have good reason to due to vulnerabilities. But the idea that large numbers of the population are cowering away in fear is the invention of the newspapers for various self-interested reasons: the financial interests of their owners; the desire to blame things on anyone except those making the decisions; flattering their readers and themselves that they're all Big Brave Boys. We should ask ourselves: are there really many people who you know who are behaving like this? Or who ever did, except for being cautious in the early days when so much was unsure. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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