IOM Covid removing restrictions

[horatiotheturd]

Just watched the latest BBC news about vaccine rollout in USA, India and the UK.

The figures being quoted are astounding and the speed at which centres have been set up is phenomenal. 

Nice, simple quick and cheap facilities like drive through ones in America and Salisbury Cathedral in the UK.  The Cathedral seems perfectly fit for purpose having had some basic cubicles installed and volunteers drafted in to give out the jabs.

Bit embarrassing really, while our lot spend fortunes building facilities that will no doubt have new floor to ceiling walls, plastered, and probably papered with custom wallsllpaper and carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it to be opened twice a week, 9:30 to 4 with lunch breaks when they eventually finish it.

[Roger Mexico]

4 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

I have absolute sympathy for Dr Glover resorting to social media to highlight her frustration but also if I was on the other side of that, I'd probably not want to deal with someone who would post on twitter and tag the news organisations if they disagreed with me.

It's a culture clash really.  Scientists are used to disagreeing and discussing differences in public because that is the way that science progresses.  Without openness and discussion ideas don't get exchanged and improvements don't get made.  But disagreement aims not to be personal - it's other people's theories that are being examined, not their character.

On the other hand the Manx Civil Service and politics thrive on secrecy.  Look how long it took for that report on Skelly and Shimmin to come out - they didn't even want to admit it existed.  So the first instinct is always to hide and deny information and to not do things in case it produces a result you don't want.  Politicians are supposed to the ones who prevent this because their main duty is supposed to be to the public, but the current Ministers are mainly happy to do whatever they are told.

[TheTeapot]

4 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Just watched the latest BBC news about vaccine rollout in USA, India and the UK.

While I can't comment on what the BBC have just said about the US, from watching cnn my impression is not one of things going very smoothly over there at all. Plenty of news articles easily searchable from a variety of sources suggesting the same.

 

 

[Rhumsaa]

4 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's a culture clash really.  Scientists are used to disagreeing and discussing differences in public because that is the way that science progresses.  Without openness and discussion ideas don't get exchanged and improvements don't get made.  But disagreement aims not to be personal - it's other people's theories that are being examined, not their character.

It's not a culture clash though is it and what you've detailed there is a revisionist history of the events.

I don't really want to dwell on that aspect of it because I have absolute sympathy for how Dr Glover must have felt and can view it as a social media whistle blowing due to feeling ignored and wading through the treacle that is the CS bureaucracy. I also agree with your second paragraph that the CS have a policy of closed doors and secrecy which is not helpful at all.

However, I am also a practical chap and going forward I can understand why the IOM Gov wouldn't want to go back into that relationship - once burned and all that. Also the offer from Dr Glover is not exactly going to encourage anyone to do it because there's no opportunity to save face or put a positive spin on it.

So everyone doubles down.

And the Manx public lose.

[pongo]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's a culture clash really.  Scientists are used to disagreeing and discussing differences in public because that is the way that science progresses.

In the realm of pure science, published papers and peer review, yes. Sure. But I think I can see how that might be different where a team needs to put out a coordinated and agreed public response. 

[pongo]

all gets a bit Hezza otherwise

[horatiotheturd]

10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

While I can't comment on what the BBC have just said about the US, from watching cnn my impression is not one of things going very smoothly over there at all. Plenty of news articles easily searchable from a variety of sources suggesting the same.

 

 

That's because Trump is an idiot.

Bidens commitment is 100,000,000 in his first 100 days in power.

I would assume he is underestimating so he doesn't end up with egg on his face.

[Apple]

29 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Without openness and discussion ideas don't get exchanged and improvements don't get made.  But disagreement aims not to be personal - it's other people's theories that are being examined, not their character.

.....like here on Manxforums obviously. 😄

[The Old Git]

Twitter threads saying that the USA doesn’t have the vaccine stocks / reserves they thought they had. Obvious “jokes” that Kushner probably sold them. 
 

ETA 

https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/hhs-secretary-azar-resigns-says-us-doesnt-have-reserve-vaccine-stockpile-655624/amp?__twitter_impression=true

etc, 

Edited January 16, 2021 by The Old Git

[Apple]

24 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

While I can't comment on what the BBC have just said about the US, from watching cnn my impression is not one of things going very smoothly over there at all. Plenty of news articles easily searchable from a variety of sources suggesting the same.

All the rich oldies are heading to Florida where apparently you can then register and pay for the jabs. Even Disney world is being turned into a vaccine center.

Some fake injectors there will make a lot of money.

[Lost Login]

1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

You can actually tell how many times the virus has been introduced into the community, and how it has progressed through the community too.

Dr Glover's blog explains it with a nice diagram here: https://rachomics.blog/

It gives you the answers as to who it is likely to have passed between directly, but also, where hops have been missed. It can either reassure you that your contact tracing is working, or alert you to a more widespread problem.

Thanks, you are Roger Mexico have responded in a similar fashion. I can understand how you can see how it has passed through the community as if there are several different sequences being passed on you can see how they are spreading. If one is spreading more than the other you could target those with that strain so I can see that could be useful. As the IoM is taking the approach of lockdown to quickly stop transmission though I am not sure that actually helps the IoM eliminate.

I don’t understand the bit about telling how many times the virus has been introduced as that would require there to be numerous different strains and numerous introductions into the community. We seem to have small number of cases the majority of which they appear to have traced to their source so it does not appear that we will have numerous strains and numerous introductions. Whether we have or not how does knowing that help us stop or resolve the current transmission quicker than the current lock down does.   

I read Dr Glover’s blog and I think I understand it. The sequencing will tell you who it has passed directly between as they will have the same sequence. I understand that would be useful as if there is an unknown sequence then you have a source you are not aware of.  Similarly I can see that it could show where hops have been missed although with the limited cases we have in the IoM the sequencing would have to slightly very quickly for that to apply. Does the sequencing change that quickly. Again though whether we the information or not how does knowing that help us stop or resolve the current transmission quicker than the current lock down does. I have not got much interest in the spat between IoM Govt and Mrs Glover, they are both getting my back up, beyond is it preventing us getting out of lockdown quicker than we would expect to do based on the current lockdown.

I can see the rest being interesting science and information you would like to review in due course when reviewing procedures, cross checking how good your tracing was but I am struggling to understand how it would speed us out of lockdown which Is what seems to be implied by some.  I am not necessarily referring to just posts on Manx Forums.  

[Lost Login]

31 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

However, I am also a practical chap and going forward I can understand why the IOM Gov wouldn't want to go back into that relationship - once burned and all that. Also the offer from Dr Glover is not exactly going to encourage anyone to do it because there's no opportunity to save face or put a positive spin on it.

So everyone doubles down.

And the Manx public lose.

I like to think I am practically minded so I will raise the same question I raised in my recent post to Acoustically Challenged. Does this spat delay us getting out of lockdown as I would have thought that lockdown is what will stop the transmission quickly and enable normal life to resume. That is what is I am focusing on and what seems important at this point.  

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, Rhumsaa said:

I have absolute sympathy for Dr Glover resorting to social media to highlight her frustration but also if I was on the other side of that, I'd probably not want to deal with someone who would post on twitter and tag the news organisations if they disagreed with me.

Sadly the only losers in this battle is the Manx public

Well put Rhumsaa

[Roger Mexico]

20 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I don’t understand the bit about telling how many times the virus has been introduced as that would require there to be numerous different strains and numerous introductions into the community. We seem to have small number of cases the majority of which they appear to have traced to their source so it does not appear that we will have numerous strains and numerous introductions. Whether we have or not how does knowing that help us stop or resolve the current transmission quicker than the current lock down does.   

Because we don't know that there has only been one introduction this time and about a third of the cases had no obvious contact with another person infected.  So it could have come on the Island several times in recent weeks.  Genomics would reassure us there was only one source and if not we could look to see how the other infections arrived and how measures could be improved.

Multiple introductions are actually quite common - it's a myth that there is always a 'Patient Zero' who then infects everyone else, directly or indirectly.  Apparently there were at least 16 separate introduction to the Island in the Spring - some didn't result in any other person getting Covid that we know of, but other led to a lot of people doing so.

[TheTeapot]

14 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I like to think I am practically minded so I will raise the same question I raised in my recent post to Acoustically Challenged. Does this spat delay us getting out of lockdown as I would have thought that lockdown is what will stop the transmission quickly and enable normal life to resume. That is what is I am focusing on and what seems important at this point.  

It would probably not, because the lockdown is a political decision.

It would help inform the contact tracing team about lines of transmission, and instill some much needed confidence in the process.