Max Power Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 The exchange between @AcousticallyChallenged and @Lost Login amongst others has helped me to understand what the hoohah between Dr Glover and our government has been about and I thank them for their trouble. I was struggling to understand why the genomics should be so important too. Isn't that what forums are all about? There's no need to resort to personal attacks in trying to make your point, nobody learns anything from abuse. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 So...just like countless previous posts have stated (and ignored by certain posters), genome testing doesn’t SOLVE the situation, but certainly ADDS to our testing and trace abilities. It is seen as invaluable across the world, where they have the ability to do this type of work. But here in the little Isle of Man? With a female Doctor running the show? For free? Nah, we’ll leave it thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) @Lost Login - let me have a go. And feel free to call me Wrighty, Ian, Dr Wright, Mr Wright - just avoid Mrs or Ms. The genomics adds to contact tracing. My understanding is it’s good enough to come up with a family tree of virus replication. So for arguments sake, let’s say the 1886 case and the Truth case have a replication gap of one, i.e. they’re both related to a common ancestor but both cases appear to have no contacts in common. The tracing based on phone calls makes no sense. You could then go back to them, re-interview, and find out perhaps that they both got petrol from Laxey one day - they’d forgotten to mention or whatever. Potentially you’ll uncover a new line of transmission before other random cases spring up. This is hypothetical, but hopefully illustrates potential benefits. You’re right, that if we had an absolute lockdown, China style, it wouldn’t matter. But we don’t - people are still out and about. Genomics mapping could complement the existing contact tracing process and make it more robust. Edited January 17, 2021 by wrighty Compliment/complement cock up 3 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatiotheturd Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, manxst said: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-55413666 “Sequencing the virus's genome allows scientists to see how it is changing as it subtly mutates over time, and to uncover how outbreaks spread, by looking at clusters of a particular variant of the virus.” I get what you are saying but actually agree with Lost Login and Henrieta that although its nice to know it doesn't actually make any difference to our defence. Test, isolation, and if someone slips through the new testing regime (i doubt it) then track and trace. Hopefully the steps they have taken with a lockdown (although not as full on as I would have liked) will mean that in a couple of weeks we are back to only worrying about cases at the border which the testing they implemented just after the horse had bolted should now pick up. If that is the case then any genome testing will be irrelevant as will have been contracted off island? Would have been nice to have it over the last few weeks but we didn't, and given the other steps taken at this stage I can't see any harm done as a consequence 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, horatiotheturd said: I get what you are saying but actually agree with Lost Login and Henrieta that although its nice to know it doesn't actually make any difference to our defence. Test, isolation, and if someone slips through the new testing regime (i doubt it) then track and trace. Hopefully the steps they have taken with a lockdown (although not as full on as I would have liked) will mean that in a couple of weeks we are back to only worrying about cases at the border which the testing they implemented just after the horse had bolted should now pick up. If that is the case then any genome testing will be irrelevant as will have been contracted off island? Would have been nice to have it over the last few weeks but we didn't, and given the other steps taken at this stage I can't see any harm done as a consequence That’s fine- I know what you’re saying. But as Wrighty has perfectly pointed out above: ”if we had an absolute lockdown, China style, it wouldn’t matter. But we don’t - people are still out and about. Genomics mapping could compliment the existing contact tracing process and make it more robust.” It’s simply staggering we’re not making use of this. By the time we MIGHT need it, it’s too late. AGAIN. Let’s be proactive for a change, instead of like you say, forever being after the horse has bolted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Genomic tracing could and should be be a standard part of our arsenal to control, and govern our reactions to, Covid spread. But like any information in respect of such, it's perishable, it has a short life, particularly in light of the speed that this virus can transmit and mutate. It's a fool who turns down the supply of such information. We need all the help we can get. We should be using all the tools at our disposal. Edited January 17, 2021 by Non-Believer typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, wrighty said: @Lost Login - let me have a go. And feel free to call me Wrighty, Ian, Dr Wright, Mr Wright - just avoid Mrs or Ms. The genomics adds to contact tracing. My understanding is it’s good enough to come up with a family tree of virus replication. So for arguments sake, let’s say the 1886 case and the Truth case have a replication gap of one, i.e. they’re both related to a common ancestor but both cases appear to have no contacts in common. The tracing based on phone calls makes no sense. You could then go back to them, re-interview, and find out perhaps that they both got petrol from Laxey one day - they’d forgotten to mention or whatever. Potentially you’ll uncover a new line of transmission before other random cases spring up. This is hypothetical, but hopefully illustrates potential benefits. You’re right, that if we had an absolute lockdown, China style, it wouldn’t matter. But we don’t - people are still out and about. Genomics mapping could complement the existing contact tracing process and make it more robust. Thanks Doc. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Well I'm with last login and piebaps. Haven't seen anything to convince me either I can only assume that you are actively trying not to be convinced. The arguments given here by numerous posters, the links given by manxst and a great many more easily searchable by anyone who wants to be educated are all compelling. There must be a reason you are not convinced just like LL. He was invited to share it, but declined, maybe you would like to tell us all what your reasons are? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Looking at the vaccinations centres in uk , they just seem to have desks, chairs & mobile screens between desks so they are quickly & cheaply set up & removed . Not sure why we have had to have teams of builders in for weeks to set ours up which look like they will also need a lot of work to remove 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Banker said: Looking at the vaccinations centres in uk , they just seem to have desks, chairs & mobile screens between desks so they are quickly & cheaply set up & removed . Not sure why we have had to have teams of builders in for weeks to set ours up which look like they will also need a lot of work to remove Got to keep the imported labour busy now the Prom is shut down, else they’d be all round the Island, spreading their germs, stealing our women, and buying all our toilet roll.... Edited January 17, 2021 by manxst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Roxanne said: If Dr Glover had remained on board, there's an extremely high chance that we wouldn't now be in lockdown. Does that help? No. I see you evidence for your point of view (which is all this is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, manxst said: Got to keep the imported labour busy now the Prom is shut down, else they’d be all round the Island, spreading their germs, stealing our women, and buying all our toilet roll.... They were all manx firms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Gladys said: There are a few "unknown origin" positives where it may be useful as has been explained. Sorry not seeing it. They treated them all as clusters and traces them down as a whole group. I'm not seeing any advantage in specialist genomics in either of the last 2 outbreaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Happier diner said: They were all manx firms Great. Whilst all our hard working chippies and sparkies are earning their wonga, the imported labour are all round the Island, spreading the germs, stealing our women, and buying our toilet rolls... Edited January 17, 2021 by manxst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, manxst said: https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/02/sequencing-genome-sars-cov-2/ “you could use the genomic sequence to estimate the actual infected population size. So rather than just determining the number of people who have tested positive, from the genomes that we are seeing, we can estimate the total number of positive cases in the state, and that can give us a better understanding up-front of the scope of the problem. This is especially important given the limited scale of testing in some locations.” What. In just 11 or so cases, that were all effective traced. Bit of overkill don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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