horatiotheturd Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: Fucking retarded some of the people on this thread. Charming Different people, different viewpoints, different life experiences and priorities and different opinions on things. Lots of people I disagree with. I don't label them "******* ********" until I meet them and they remove all doubt. Online everyone gets the benefit of the doubt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, manxst said: But there IS movement. We’re basically NOT in a lockdown, as I pointed out Wrighty stated earlier. People are moving around. People are going to work. Have you been to Marine Drive? People are driving around, getting petrol, shopping. People wear masks, but I’d hazard 99% aren't effective in controlling transmission of a virus- some people are putting a scarf across their mouths and thinking that protects them from falling ill! I haven’t witnessed this because I haven’t left the house since Tuesday, I obviously hope others are the same, so it’s disappointing to hear this, it will ultimately prolong lockdown for everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Annoymouse said: I haven’t witnessed this because I haven’t left the house since Tuesday, I obviously hope others are the same, so it’s disappointing to hear this, it will ultimately prolong lockdown for everyone. Noticed less people are wearing masks out walking, cycling etc but unless you’re close to people they’re not required and agree it’s very busy about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said: Charming Different people, different viewpoints, different life experiences and priorities and different opinions on things. Lots of people I disagree with. I don't label them "******* ********" until I meet them and they remove all doubt. Online everyone gets the benefit of the doubt There's about 50 posts from a variety of people and some links explaining why it is a GOOD IDEA yet Horatiotheturd thinks he knows better without coming close to explaining why. I'll label people exactly what they are thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 hours ago, TheTeapot said: @Lost LoginIt has been explained to you numerous times in pretty clear terms that the genomics would be a valuable tool to aid the shoe leather work of the contact tracing team. You seem to be purposefully ignoring this point. Would you care to explain why? It's called sealioning: Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate". The definition could usefully be added to by saying that questions are often the same ones asked over and over again, slightly rephrased. The answers are misunderstood or ignored out of malice, ignorance or simply because they aren't interested in them. Why people behave like this is another matter. In some national debates there may actually be 'paid trolls' involved (climate change has a history of this) - I suppose our local equivalent would be those working for the government who are defending its positions, no matter how irrational those are. Such attitudes would extend to others linked in to that system: partners, family members, retirees, favoured contractors and so on. Others may be 'useful idiots' who will support 'their side' even when it isn't their side or when the topic (as with most in science) isn't a binary one and there aren't sides, just an attempt to find out what is happening and what works. And some simply seem to think that this is the way to behave - that online debate is all about 'winning' and this is done, not by having the most pertinent facts and arguments, but by claiming that people haven't answered you and awarding yourself victory. It's a bit sad, but it's common. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatiotheturd Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TheTeapot said: There's about 50 posts from a variety of people and some links explaining why it is a GOOD IDEA yet Horatiotheturd thinks he knows better without coming close to explaining why. I'll label people exactly what they are thanks. I said I don't see the benefit going forward given we shouldn't be getting anything more than a very rare isolated case getting through the stronger testing and isolation requirements. I can see the benefit somewhere where you have lots of cases and are trying to see which are spreading more quickly than others and where you don't have effective lockdlwns and isolation in place. Like someone else said. Hundreds of cases a day in Liverpool- worthwhile. One case in 6 months that gets squashed pretty quickly in a small population - not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I suppose our local equivalent would be those working for the government who are defending its positions, no matter how irrational those are. Such attitudes would extend to others linked in to that system: partners, family members, retirees, favoured contractors and That was my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, daisy said: No reason to not get our ducks in a row .... Unless we remain in permanent lockdown this virus is not going away. Whatever happened to Manx solutions for Manx problems? - to get Dr Glover on board is a golden opportunity. Maybe I’m misunderstood, please do bring Dr Glover in to do the testing, I’d personally love to see the results, but I don’t personally think it’s going to have the magic results that would’ve happened from Day 1, as you said before if the testing happened earlier then it’s highly probable we could’ve endured a shorter lockdown period, the horse has bolted on that one now and to much time has passed. 3 weeks is enough to eradicate it from the community in a proper lockdown scenario, if people are still taking the piss and exercising their rights then it needs nipping in the bud, contract tracing won’t count a walk along the prom or marine drive as exposure so I’m not sure how much testing will actually help, people just need to be more responsible and bash their two brain cells together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: It's called sealioning: Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate". The definition could usefully be added to by saying that questions are often the same ones asked over and over again, slightly rephrased. The answers are misunderstood or ignored out of malice, ignorance or simply because they aren't interested in them. Why people behave like this is another matter. In some national debates there may actually be 'paid trolls' involved (climate change has a history of this) - I suppose our local equivalent would be those working for the government who are defending its positions, no matter how irrational those are. Such attitudes would extend to others linked in to that system: partners, family members, retirees, favoured contractors and so on. Others may be 'useful idiots' who will support 'their side' even when it isn't their side or when the topic (as with most in science) isn't a binary one and there aren't sides, just an attempt to find out what is happening and what works. And some simply seem to think that this is the way to behave - that online debate is all about 'winning' and this is done, not by having the most pertinent facts and arguments, but by claiming that people haven't answered you and awarding yourself victory. It's a bit sad, but it's common. Totally without being able to offer tangible evidence, I intuitively feel that the IOM government benefits from more than its fair share of ‘useful idiots’. Edited January 17, 2021 by Uhtred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: There's about 50 posts from a variety of people and some links explaining why it is a GOOD IDEA yet Horatiotheturd thinks he knows better without coming close to explaining why. I'll label people exactly what they are thanks. Let’s make this simple, is there anyone who thinks it’s a bad idea? not that I’ve witnessed. Government aren’t going to accept Dr Glovers help because it will highlight their own failures that much is evident. There was a point almost 3 weeks ago they could’ve swallowed their pride, but now it would be admitting to failure, it just won’t happen. Dr Ewart said it offered no benefit 2 weeks ago, didn’t bother chasing up the results, couldn’t have acted less interested when asked and that was despite overwhelming evidence that 2 weeks ago it would have been extremely beneficial in helping track and map cases. I personally think they’ve been determined to do things with as little help from external resources as possible, all because they want to give themselves a pat on the back in a few months time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Annoymouse said: Having Dr Glover doing the genomics now, would serve little purpose other than confirm what we already know, If they were done earlier then we could have got a handle on things sooner, obviously if this current lockdown fails to work then this should be reconsidered as an option, but we know from our previous lockdown that it will be successful. I agree that speed is important, but even now it can make some contribution. People are saying about the 'success' of track and trace, but out of the last 20 cases[1] 6 had no apparent source of infection or links to other cases. We hope that eventually lockdown will be successful (we've only got a sample of one to go on) but genomics can be important in reducing the time needed because the more you know to more control you can develop. [1] Today's figures aren't out yet as far as I can see, though it's difficult to get consistent figures from day to day in any case as they don't always announce them on the same platform or at the same time (or at all) and definitions change all the time. Edited January 17, 2021 by Roger Mexico Lost line at end 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I agree that speed is important, but even now it can make some contribution. I think that’s the only bit that’s being debated, how much contribution or effect it would have from this day forward, but I’ll make it clear I’d still rather have testing done and have the data there, rather than not have it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Annoymouse said: I think that’s the only bit that’s being debated, how much contribution or effect it would have from this day forward, but I’ll make it clear I’d still rather have testing done and have the data there, rather than not have it at all. If it improves our tracking/tracing, and thus as a consequence our defences by 10%, 5%, or even 1%, then let’s utilise the option we have right here on our doorstep. Why people don’t want this is a mystery. (Which they still can’t explain themselves). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 9 new cases today. 2 travel related and 7 close contacts already in isolation. Edited January 17, 2021 by Dave Hedgehog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: We hope that eventually lockdown will be successful (we've only got a sample of one to go on) but genomics can be important in reducing the time needed because the more you know to more control you can develop. If the goal is, as stated, to eliminate the virus locally then no new cases since some certain date is the only reliable measure. Because there is no way on knowing who has it but hasn't been tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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