Tricky Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: We’re a soft old bunch these days. Talk to anyone who grew up during the war, you weren’t allowed off the island without special dispensation, you wouldn’t see your family for potentially years and you simply had to make do. The guest house owners who were turfed out for a pittance to a house stripped bare was an eye opener on Manx Nostalgia. Now, you’ve got people spitting on policemen for being told to keep your distance. Though, the UK has become a very strange place. By and large, we’ve been very lucky in the way the Island has been since June, and I think the Manx public have gone a long way to enabling that. I think, what we lack now, is a light at the end of a tunnel, that is manifesting itself as a generalised frustration. Whilst we have it comparatively easy, many of us wonder about the implications on family, relationships, jobs and the broader future of the island. Finally, a fair and reasonable post from you. I actually agree with what you say in this post. I wonder too, and yes, I worry as well, I just don't come out on the offensive towards those whom are trying to rectify the situation on our behalf - serves no beneficial purpose, rather, stimulates division, frustration, opposition etc, when there really isn't any need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said: So how on earth can't you say that? Because no viable or serious grown-up business would make long term plans based on such a myopic and short-term view - in the middle of a literally extra-ordinary global situation in which none of the old certainties hold true. It simply isn't credible. It was either not a serious proposition or ... The emails are irrelevant in this context Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatiotheturd Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, pongo said: Because no viable or serious grown-up business would make long term plans based on such a myopic and short-term view - in the middle of a literally extra-ordinary global situation in which none of the old certainties hold true. It simply isn't credible. It was either not a serious proposition or ... The emails are irrelevant in this context So with sound evidence offered to you that discredits what you say , you declare that evidence irrelevant . OK then. You keep living in your world and the rest of us will live in the real world. The one where poor governemnt decisions are costing this island an absolute fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) It isn't all about money though - you must be English with that outlook! In the same way that you accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being a Government worker. Edited January 23, 2021 by piebaps poor spelling 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: I completely understand why you feel we’re actually doing everything right. From your perspective, we’re safe, most of us are employed, and we’re essentially free. I’ve pointed out, it is not a Minister’s job to know all the answers, but it is their job to assemble the people and information to form them. I think you’re naive if you think that Manx Whispers are purely a side effect of this current situation. Realistically, all it has done is brought into the spotlight the decision making and processes within the government. Oversight is no bad thing. In some press conferences, earlier in the month, HQ had been coming across far better than he had in quite a long time. Numerous scientists have agreed that actually, the vaccination is more likely to be a damper than a magic cure. The Manx public must be ready for that being a reality. Well, there are grandparents who haven’t seen their newborn grandchildren, there are posters here who have been separated from their children for months through no fault of their own. Even two weeks of lockdown can be a long time if you’re living paycheck to paycheck. For those who would otherwise be able to continue working safely, this has led them into a difficult situation. Perspective is a wonderful thing, and we are in a fortunate position. The biggest tragedy would be to lose it through complacency. I don't think we are doing everything right, but I am willing to accept, given the severity of the challenge presented to the whole planet, we aren't going to get everything right. We are doing well, in relative terms. Manx Whispers, or to use one of my dear Mothers favourite sayings, 'tittle tattle', has no positives, ever. I accept your point re vaccines, but as I have stated, this is a changing situation. No one can predict the changes, so we will have to live, and react to them. This is why no fixed, long term plan be be implemented, anywhere. My children cannot see their grandparents. Not their fault, not my fault. Blame also never solves anything. We just have to work through it. Why exacerbate the agony by whinging about it? I'm fortunate in that i don't live paycheck to paycheck, but nor am I wealthy. I sympathise with many in such a difficult situation, but I would also say, I see many of the complaints in this regard coming from people with a shiny top of the range Merc parked on their drive, in exchange for sending 400 quid per month in Rex's direction... yet they live paycheck to paycheck. I don't have a Merc, or a car for that matter, I have a van, which is paid for, that I use for work, and any other travel. Perhaps this may have something to do with why i'm not so worried about my position atm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said: blah blah blah No serious company is deciding whether or not to be here based on what happens in the next few months. Anyone with a brain knows that those sorts of decisions are based on much longer term considerations. Edited January 23, 2021 by pongo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 If they were then it wouldn't be business worth taking because it would mean dealing with morons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatiotheturd Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, pongo said: If they were then it wouldn't be business worth taking because it would mean dealing with morons. They were a startup (is, not brand new but looking to grow) They wanted to move here. They had plans to move here and had recruited staff. The office in the UK (Readjng) was going to stay in place for a year while operations transferred to the new office here which was due to grow over 12 months into new premises which they were planning to build. They couldn't get staff to come here and bolster the local ones they had offered jobs to because of travel restrictions and no reassurance of a way out. So they invested tens of millions back in reading and Windsor and employed staff there instead. Everything seemed to be going to plan down there last time I checked. Several of the board who had already purchased houses here now have them up for sale. Believe what you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said: They were a startup (is, not brand new but looking to grow) They wanted to move here. They had plans to move here and had recruited staff. The office in the UK (Readjng) was going to stay in place for a year while operations transferred to the new office here which was due to grow over 12 months into new premises which they were planning to build. They couldn't get staff to come here and bolster the local ones they had offered jobs to because of travel restrictions and no reassurance of a way out. So they invested tens of millions back in reading and Windsor and employed staff there instead. Everything seemed to be going to plan down there last time I checked. Several of the board who had already purchased houses here now have them up for sale. Believe what you want What's you're source? As the pubs are closed is it "man down the pub" just in a different location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 People expecting this to be over in the next 3 - 6 months are going to be very disappointed. It's laughable to be miserable about business that planned this that or the other set up in the island. In the current climate the island will do well to keep most of what it already has. Laurence Skelly would be impressed with dreamed up numbers like that. Do you already work for the Starship Enterprise? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, pongo said: Not one single viable or useful business with plans to perhaps move here has changed their plan. No serious or viable business would plan so short term. Any that say they have would not be worth worrying about. It's worth pointing out that this and its subsequent repetitions are a classic example of the No True Scotsman fallacy: "No serious or viable business would drop its plans to move here" "But this business has changed its plans to move here" "But that means it can't have been a serious or viable business. Because no ..." Repeat ad infinitum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, pongo said: No. That's bollocks. And very obviously. It's very simply that no serious business makes such big decisions based on such a short term analysis. The virus is over soon - perhaps a few months, perhaps a year. That kind of timescale is not going to affect where a company registers etc. Don't be basic. You say no serous business makes such big decisions based on such a short term analysis. Let us treat respective Governments, in this example, so the UK, hell .. even CoMin & us here. Have they (yes, they again) carried out any substantive analysis on the consequences of three & two lockdowns respectively, in terms of the nations economy, unemployment, delayed medical treatments, educational failings, mental health issues (amongst many others) ? The answer - No. We’ve known for months who is susceptible to developing life threatening symptoms from the virus yet the pain & suffering goes on for everyone. I’m sorry and I hate to be a lone voice but I’m just not buying it. Call me an insensitive pensioner killer - it’s fine. Edited January 23, 2021 by Nom de plume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Not sure you are a lone voice NDP. What many have been asking for is a holistic risk management approach, whereas what we seem to have is a focused risk elimination approach, considering only one risk. Edited January 23, 2021 by Gladys 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Given that we have demonstrated that elimination is possible and our economy works well when that happens I think it is a good short term policy, maybe for 6 months. In that 6 months we need to prepare for how we manage future outbreaks. Vaccinate as many as we can. Build a facility to cope with the expected maximum number of serious cases which will arise once the virus is back in the community, endemic. I have not seen or heard of these plans. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, NoTail said: Given that we have demonstrated that elimination is possible and our economy works well when that happens I think it is a good short term policy, maybe for 6 months. In that 6 months we need to prepare for how we manage future outbreaks. Vaccinate as many as we can. Build a facility to cope with the expected maximum number of serious cases which will arise once the virus is back in the community, endemic. I have not seen or heard of these plans. Once the required amount are vaccinated then there shouldn't be any need for restrictions. I do suspect (in the uk) that come winter when the yearly pressure on the nhs happens there will be restrictions there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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