IOM Covid removing restrictions

[asitis]

2 hours ago, horatiotheturd said:

Super shiny expensive hub day 1.

Vulnerable people stood in the cold and wet

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/queues-form-on-first-day-of-new-airport-vaccination-hub/

Piss up and brewery spring readily to mind !

I'm sorry but they are fuckxxx useless ! it's winter there isn't a bus every ten minutes, teleportation a la Star Trek is some years away ! If there wasn't a simple more efficient method/s of doing this I'll eat my hat !

Edited January 28, 2021 by asitis

[Zarley]

9 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Honestly.  If you asked her she would rather not be here than exist like she does now.  Especially now she can't even look forward to see the few people in life she enjoys spending time with.

It would hugely hurt us as a family if she weren't here, but in total honesty would be a blessing for all concerned in the medium to long term.

Not easy to say or type but you did ask.

Thank you for your honesty. Your situation is truly heart breaking and I do realise how difficult it must be for you all. I've been in a very similar situation in my own family. As I said, my heart goes out to you. 

Many of us have loved ones who may be old or weak who do have a quality of life and want to live. While I have empathy for you, your daughter and your family, is sure feels like you don't have much empathy for others. 

Maybe you're at the end of your tether, but you do come across as not caring about those of us on the island who are vulnerable to disability or even death by covid. I find that very disquieting. 

[Banker]

Guernsey going horribly wrong , probably overtake Jersey cases soon at this rate! Good the levels of detail they give on ages etc

https://guernseypress.com/news/2021/01/28/schools-colleges-likely-to-stay-shut-next-week-as-cases-reach-107/

[quilp]

36 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

... *yawns* ...

Funnily enough I do a lot of that reading your posts, repetition has that effect. 

[Boo Gay'n]

1 hour ago, Apple said:

Interesting to see all the mathematical connotations for Nobles beds.

Rather than 'beds' it may be better to view that here are extra areas and resources that have been and can be swiftly turned into facilities for nursing and treating Covid patients irrespective of need for ventilators etc.

Another point to consider is that we can, and have , transported very ill people off Island when stabilised to UK areas when needed. Even electives surgery may sometimes have an overnight ICU admission built in as part of a treatment plan.

I think Nobles (now 12 months later) has some degree of sensible resilience built in for actual patients in 'bed's.

What is does not have is an unlimited supply of staff, and that sometimes can cause concerns. But even then, staff from other areas can be redistributed / trained as and when needed.

We do need, even at this point, is the need to be building in more resilience and flexibility into the whole care network to stop the erosion that has been going on for along time, look again at why this was allowed to happen, was it government policy?, and to actually get smarter as to what we want our health services to deliver here, guaranteed, and how to respond to changing circumstances in future.

Good that you highlight the staff glitch.  That was why the Nightingale hospitals in England were white elephants.  Laid off Virgin cabin crew can't actually care for people in ICU beds, even if all the kit is place.

[horatiotheturd]

13 minutes ago, Zarley said:

Thank you for your honesty. Your situation is truly heart breaking and I do realise how difficult it must be for you all. I've been in a very similar situation in my own family. As I said, my heart goes out to you. 

Many of us have loved ones who may be old or weak who do have a quality of life and want to live. While I have empathy for you, your daughter and your family, is sure feels like you don't have much empathy for others. 

Maybe you're at the end of your tether, but you do come across as not caring about those of us on the island who are vulnerable to disability or even death by covid. I find that very disquieting. 

No idea where you get that from.  My mum is very much at risk, doesn't mean I (or she) think the rest of us should all shut down though.

I have never advocated putting people at unnecessary risk. I do strongly belive that we are in a fairly unique position where we could safely balance increased travel and keeping people safe.  I also strongly believe people are scared to even suggest or consider such a thing because peoples perception of what a handful of cases held in isolation until clear actually means for the island.  Lets face it that is exactly what we have now.  There were 50 cases isolating which is now dropping off.

Noone got ill, noone died, and because they are in isolation there is no risk to the rest of us.

I would promote level 3 borders immediately with current isolation and testing and increased monitoring to prevent breeches.

An efficient track and trace app which could quickly lock close contacts down in the event of new cases.

A short sharp lockdown if needed.

That's not a lack of caring or empathy as I genuinely belive it presents very little risk while allowing people the best compromise at the moment.

I could argue that those who are happy to live in a mamx bubble at cost to others livelihoods and wellbeing rather than being open to other well thought out options are showing lack of caring and empathy.  Its a very "I am alright Jack" attitude.

Edited January 28, 2021 by horatiotheturd

[horatiotheturd]

3 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

Good that you highlight the staff glitch.  That was why the Nightingale hospitals in England were white elephants.  Laid off Virgin cabin crew can't actually care for people in ICU beds, even if all the kit is place.

We redeployed theatre staff amongst others into ICU last time.

[Newbie]

3 hours ago, horatiotheturd said:

Don't forget the extra ICU capacity that cane on line in spring and would be turned on again if needed

That is true, they can repurpose beds to make more ICU capacity if needed. Typically they would use theatre recovery beds, but that comes at a cost. You have to then shut down routine surgery because there is nowhere for the patients to recover after. The advantage of that is that you potentially have theatre staff to help look after the patients. Obviously, emergency surgery has to continue so there is a limit to the extra capacity you can generate. 

A similar repurposing process would have to go on elsewhere in the hospital to cope with the COVID admissions who needed to be in hospital but not in ICU. In effect what you are saying is we could cope with the level of disease that currently exists in the UK if we repurpose the whole NHS to deal with COVID and emergencies, but very little else. Nobles may cope in that circumstance, but if you have had to stop everything else in order to cope, and your staff have to be driven to breaking point, to me that is being overrun.

[pongo]

1 hour ago, horatiotheturd said:

An efficient track and trace app which could quickly lock close contacts down in the event of new cases.

Again.

App based track and trace is anonymous. There is no record of who has been pinged. Therefore no way of enforcing it.

(There may be some benefit with respect to reducing the scale of an outbreak in a bigger country or a metropolitan area. But it will not prevent one here.)

And if it isn't anonymous then it will not be eligible for the App Store. Because it will violate confidentiality.

Plus (obviously) all of the support issues around trying to get thousands of people set up with it across multiple different versions of iOS and Android. Getting the security settings right and ensuring they have the bluetooth settings properly configured. Just so that you can anonymously ping them and they can ignore it.

Edited January 28, 2021 by pongo

[horatiotheturd]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

Again.

App based track and trace is anonymous. There is no record of who has been pinged. Therefore no way of enforcing it.

(There may be some benefit with respect to reducing the scale of an outbreak in a bigger country or a metropolitan area. But it will not prevent one here.)

And if it isn't anonymous then it will not be eligible for the App Store. Because it will violate confidentiality.

Plus (obviously) all of the support issues around trying to get thousands of people set up with it across multiple different versions of iOS and Android. Getting the security settings right and ensuring they have the bluetooth settings properly configured. Just so that you can anonymously ping them and they can ignore it.

Beg to differ.  New Zealand specifically highlighted how useful theirs had been in containing their latest outbreak.

Even if only partly effective its better than nothing, which is basically what we have now?

[pongo]

4 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Beg to differ.  New Zealand specifically highlighted how useful theirs had been in containing their latest outbreak.

Even if only partly effective its better than nothing, which is basically what we have now?

There is no point putting significant resources into helping to contain an outbreak here. Here we want to prevent outbreaks completely.

In a much larger place with a much larger population anonymously pinging people can help to contain an outbreak. Yes - I said that in the post you responded to.

Edited January 28, 2021 by pongo

[Terminal]

Am I the only one who finds it a little suspicious that we’ve not had any positive cases even from people who have travelled back to the island? We used to have those almost every day.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

18 minutes ago, pongo said:

Again.

App based track and trace is anonymous. There is no record of who has been pinged. Therefore no way of enforcing it.

(There may be some benefit with respect to reducing the scale of an outbreak in a bigger country or a metropolitan area. But it will not prevent one here.)

And if it isn't anonymous then it will not be eligible for the App Store. Because it will violate confidentiality.

Plus (obviously) all of the support issues around trying to get thousands of people set up with it across multiple different versions of iOS and Android. Getting the security settings right and ensuring they have the bluetooth settings properly configured. Just so that you can anonymously ping them and they can ignore it.

App based track and trace is anonymous.

But the whole idea is, it notifies people who have been in close contact, otherwise it'd be useless.

You send out a list of anonymous IDs every X minutes/hours with IDs that have tested positive. Your phone does some sums and decides whether to alert you that you've been in close contact and should present for test.

[Andy Onchan]

7 minutes ago, Terminal said:

Am I the only one who finds it a little suspicious that we’ve not had any positive cases even from people who have travelled back to the island? We used to have those almost every day.

Good point.

[pongo]

1 minute ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

App based track and trace is anonymous.

But the whole idea is, it notifies people who have been in close contact, otherwise it'd be useless.

You send out a list of anonymous IDs every X minutes/hours with IDs that have tested positive. Your phone does some sums and decides whether to alert you that you've been in close contact and should present for test.

Yes I know how it works.

Being anonymous people can ignore it and there is no record of who has been pinged.

Across a large population and a large area it will likely not be ignored by a large enough number of people for it to potentially make an awful situation less awful.