IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

I’ve elderly parents who share my opinion.

They understand what’s at stake here long term (also having been in business all their lives).

Also, how do you view the almost blanket shutdown of medical services, thereby preventing diagnosis of disease & treatment of ongoing conditions? That’s acceptable?

We went through all these arguments at the start of this.  If there is a serious outbreak of Covid -19 on the Island again, the "blanket shutdown of medical services" will happen far more seriously than it did in recent months as the hospital will be overwhelmed.  It's not an either/or choice.

(Oh and your parents don't agree with you at all.  And they've changed their wills  )

[Out of the blue]

48 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

i am then deluded and a human being with feelings for others. too many selfish people on here.

It is not a matter of being selfish or deluded it is just people have different stances on risk and how they view the world. It is obvious that there are two vocal but diametrically opposed opinion groups who are never going to agree, those that do not consider the virus as being a threat worthy of such sacrifice. There are others who genuinely feel that the virus is a threat to their existence and trumps all other issues. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. The UK media pander to fear and doom as it sells papers and whips up public sentiment and the politicians are left trying to steer a course that pleases everyone. Personally I veer towards the opinion that the consequences of the virus are not severe enough to trump all other issues (including other medical conditions), but that does not make me selfish as I am fortunate enough to be able to weather future storms, I am in fact more concerned about the effect of continuing restrictions on others.

[Nom de plume]

Tanroagan closing it’s doors. Another one (and a good one)  bites the dust.
 

Act now & stop this madness.

[Mr Newbie]

13 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Tanroagan closing it’s doors. Another one (and a good one)  bites the dust.
 

Act now & stop this madness.

It’s getting a bit like mutually assured destruction now. So many people frightened, don’t want to work or go into work. happy to sit at home because they’re told to, not wanting to go anywhere or do anything, it will bring us all down. It’s becoming a socially engineered crash of just about everything. Disaster socialism - this weird and misplaced believe that the state will be looking after people when it’s very very clear that it can’t afford to so we just need to get on with it. By the time the penny drops everything else will have imploded. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Mr Newbie

[hissingsid]

 Some hospital clinics are running again Ihave an appointment this week, also blood clinic has been packed each time I have been there, three times in past few weeks. People are being admitted to hospital, scans are taking place.   Most people back to work, some never stopped, social life is now back to normal. I do not know where you are coming from Newbie , it may be true what you are saying across but not over here.   The only thing left is the borders and I hope they remain closed until it is safe to do so, a second wave would decimate the a Island.    Quite a few friends have enjoyed staycations around the Island,  children back at school.   We are doing ok.

[thommo2010]

33 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Tanroagan closing it’s doors. Another one (and a good one)  bites the dust.
 

Act now & stop this madness.

Where have you heard this? I walked past it today there were no signs in the window

[woolley]

17 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

Where have you heard this? I walked past it today there were no signs in the window

https://www.facebook.com/Tanroagan/

[thommo2010]

11 minutes ago, woolley said:

https://www.facebook.com/Tanroagan/

Shame decent little restaurant always seemed to have a steady stream of customers whenever I walked past 

[slinkydevil]

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

Tanroagan closing it’s doors. Another one (and a good one)  bites the dust.
 

Act now & stop this madness.

It's not because they're destitute though, reading the announcement. Just time for reflection, still have the Boatyard and have something else in the pipeline. I think most businesses have used the bad time to reflect and maybe think about pivoting for a different future. Sometimes it takes a shakeup to kick you into a different gear.

Sounded fairly positive when I read it.

ETA

On the flipside a local swimming school went into administration, (announced on facebook) which is a shame. We had a our two paid up for a load of lessons, after they only attended one lesson before lockdown. The most expensive swimming lesson in the world for us. The knock on effect from the lock-down is going to start hitting over the next few months and there's a lot of small business clinging to the edge of the cashflow cliff.

[finlo]

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

https://www.facebook.com/Tanroagan/

They will not be the last far from it.

[NoTail]

Only went once. We were disappointed.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I'm not sure if there is even any point responding to this post, it is clear that you have already your mind up. For the benefit of others however...

The idea of herd immunity for a novel coronavirus is an absolute myth, and a dangerous one at that.

Herd immunity can only be achieved through mass vaccination, and has to my knowledge been achieved globally only once with smallpox.Many of the common diseases you are vaccinated for still have outbreaks. It is not possible and has never happened by simply allowing things to spread. To argue otherwise is to be in complete and utter denial of fact. There's also NO evidence yet that previous infection even provides more than a few months immunity, and to get close to 80% means an incredible amount of sickness and death.

There has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. SARS and MERS had tons of cash thrown at them initially, no vaccine was forthcoming. Fortunately, as viruses often tend to do, they weakened, and less funding went in. There are two positives from this, one that hopefully this virus will weaken too (although the more it is allowed to spread the less likely this is in my view),and two that there is substantial work to build from.

We've had a clear, obvious and deadly warning here locally, with Abbotswood. People talk about 'protect the vulnerable'and sure that's a good thing, we should, but should that protection need to be sterile cells and hazmat suits for people with dementia? Should it fuck. The protection is given by everyone in the community taking some fucking responsibility and waiting things out until a better solution is found. Cancel your holidays, stop being an impatient dickhead and wait it out for a while. A solution will emerge.

I am surprised that you are using the above rationale to advocate "waiting things out until a better solution is found". What solution? When will it emerge? Your post seems more supportive of the opposite position. As you say, the idea of herd immunity appears increasingly unlikely to assist us, as it is being discovered that antibody protection is very short term. If exposure to the virus itself is insufficient for long term immunity, then this makes the likelihood of an effective vaccine more remote as is the case with other coronaviruses.

So we have a virus that attacks predominantly the older and weaker members of society and adversely affects a very small proportion of others. We know that it can be very nasty. It can kill some victims and it can inflict serious long term damage on the health of others. But it is an extremely small percentage. Most people have minor symptoms or are totally unaffected by it. We might get lucky. It might mutate to something less potent, or it might run out of steam and die right down. But we have to accept that it might not. Possibly, it is nature's answer to human hubris and our over-exploitation of the planet's resources. Call it a slap down from Gaia. At this stage we cannot be sure about the endgame.

So, it seems to me that for now, we have to make some compromises. We have to get on with life as far as possible while protecting the most susceptible the best we can. We have to maintain some restrictions to avoid overwhelming the health services, but we also have to realise that the restrictions were only ever intended to manage the caseload. They were never intended to lock us away for as long as the virus lasts. That idea is unrealistic both societally and economically. People need to live their lives and earn their keep. Be themselves.

Of course if individuals who are old, frail or compromised wish to continue to isolate, they should be supported in this decision with supplies made available, but the majority need to get on with normality, and accept the risk of contracting the virus in much the same way as they drive down the road in the full knowledge that road collisions can have fatal consequences.

I support the government in keeping the Island isolated for a little longer, but in the medium term onward, we risk making the protection measures worse than the disease to an extent that some people do not yet comprehend.

Edited July 14, 2020 by woolley

[woolley]

20 minutes ago, slinkydevil said:

The knock on effect from the lock-down is going to start hitting over the next few months and there's a lot of small business clinging to the edge of the cashflow cliff.

Lots of businesses operate with scant reserves at the best of times. Government knows this and that's why we had the financial support. Obviously there are limits.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

People talk about 'protect the vulnerable'and sure that's a good thing, we should, but should that protection need to be sterile cells and hazmat suits for people with dementia? Should it fuck. The protection is given by everyone in the community taking some fucking responsibility and waiting things out until a better solution is found. Cancel your holidays, stop being an impatient dickhead and wait it out for a while. A solution will emerge.

** Do not read alert for the preserve life at any cost brigade. **

People with dementia in care homes are by definition at the end of their lives. I tell you straight that if it was me, I would not want the young and fit of the world putting their lives and wellbeing (NOT just their holidays) on hold so that I might continue to hang on to a twilight existence for a few weeks or months longer. In fact, in my unfortunately quite extensive experience of this heart rending and harrowing subject amongst my most loved and cherished relatives, I would consider a slightly earlier exit to be a blessed release. The condition of many of those in this terminal decline is such that if they were animals the owners would be prosecuted for prolonging unnecessary suffering. It's a whole different and massive subject in itself and one that one day soon will have to be confronted.

[P.K.]

10 minutes ago, woolley said:

** Do not read alert for the preserve life at any cost brigade. **

People with dementia in care homes are by definition at the end of their lives. I tell you straight that if it was me, I would not want the young and fit of the world putting their lives and wellbeing (NOT just their holidays) on hold so that I might continue to hang on to a twilight existence for a few weeks or months longer. In fact, in my unfortunately quite extensive experience of this heart rending and harrowing subject amongst my most loved and cherished relatives, I would consider a slightly earlier exit to be a blessed release. The condition of many of those in this terminal decline is such that if they were animals the owners would be prosecuted for prolonging unnecessary suffering. It's a whole different and massive subject in itself and one that one day soon will have to be confronted.

Unfortunately the massive flaw in your argument is that those suffering from dementia are in no position to make a value judgement on whether an earlier exit would be a blessed relief or not.

By the way they will always be people, not animals.