Roger Mexico Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Nom de plume said: Tanroagan closing it’s doors. Another one (and a good one) bites the dust. Act now & stop this madness. But the argument here is similar to that with health services. If there is another outbreak (and there will be if we drop the Island's isolation) then, even if you don't reimpose restrictions, you can't force people to consume. Even without an outbreak people may be more cautious about going out and doing things like eating in restaurants, once new cases start appearing they are likely to stop going out - just as they did before formal restrictions started in March. So again it's a false dichotomy - unrestricted movement won't just bring back Covid-19, it will crash the economy as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 hours ago, woolley said: ** Do not read alert for the preserve life at any cost brigade. ** People with dementia in care homes are by definition at the end of their lives. I tell you straight that if it was me, I would not want the young and fit of the world putting their lives and wellbeing (NOT just their holidays) on hold so that I might continue to hang on to a twilight existence for a few weeks or months longer. In fact, in my unfortunately quite extensive experience of this heart rending and harrowing subject amongst my most loved and cherished relatives, I would consider a slightly earlier exit to be a blessed release. The condition of many of those in this terminal decline is such that if they were animals the owners would be prosecuted for prolonging unnecessary suffering. It's a whole different and massive subject in itself and one that one day soon will have to be confronted. Member of my family was in one for more than 5 years and I still don't know what the point of it was. She should have been shot. But most people don't agree, and letting them die by giving up on fighting a pandemic because its too hard is fucking rotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Is there any consideration for the cost implications of the suggested long term effects of COVID? The possible years of hospital treatment of surviving victims? At the end of the day - commercial freight, post and essentials are still incoming and outgoing. As are key personnel. Business on the island is slowly returning to normal. The only things incoming-restricted are pax. Our tourist industry is/was on its knees long before COVID. It's not the huge player in our economy that it was. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, woolley said: I am surprised that you are using the above rationale to advocate "waiting things out until a better solution is found". What solution? When will it emerge? [...] So we have a virus that attacks ... But it is an extremely small percentage. [...] So, it seems to me that for now, we have to make some compromises. We have to get on with life as far as possible while protecting the most susceptible the best we can. We have to maintain some restrictions to avoid overwhelming the health services, but we also have to realise that the restrictions were only ever intended to manage the caseload. They were never intended to lock us away for as long as the virus lasts. That idea is unrealistic both societally and economically. People need to live their lives and earn their keep. Be themselves. I support the government in keeping the Island isolated for a little longer, but in the medium term onward, we risk making the protection measures worse than the disease to an extent that some people do not yet comprehend. Well already in the short life of the pandemic there have been a couple of theraputic drugs that have had a relatively positive effect, not a cure but an improved outcome, and I'm sure that another will be along soon enough. I'm not sure what solution is going to hopefully present itself, that's not my job, or when. But one will have to. The percentages may look small, but they aren't really. We are one of the few places around where we are basically back to normal, people can broadly do what they want and everyone should be back at work. This is not the case in large parts of the world. We are not locked away, living their on island lives and earning their keep. I'm glad you see the sense in keeping the borders restricted for now, don't think anyone expects them to stay closed forever or that anyone wants them to. Its a tricky situation, but we may as well take advantage of our domestic situation. Before things get worse again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 The percentages look small because they are small. As for Tanrogan , they will have suffered because so many offices still have next to no one back in them so lunchtime trade must be very thin. Opening borders is an extremely difficult subject to tackle but at some point we will need to get on with things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 12 hours ago, dilligaf said: Nobody will die from starvation I think you know better than to have posted that rubbish are you sure,?? according to gawne we have to give the farmers over 7 million quid a year or we risk starving to death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, TheTeapot said: Member of my family was in one for more than 5 years and I still don't know what the point of it was. She should have been shot. But most people don't agree, and letting them die by giving up on fighting a pandemic because its too hard is fucking rotten. Well nobody is saying give up on fighting it. We have no choice, we have to look for solutions as the number one priority. We do however have to find a compromise for living in the meantime. Of course I knew my view would be controversial. Nothing new there. It sounds like your family member had a similar experience to more than one of mine. I don't know what the point of it was either. Steady decline into a state of profound dysphasia, double incontinence, inability to communicate or have any quality of life whatsoever. Oh, and incidentally, a prolonged battle simply to breathe reminiscent of the most serious covid cases. THAT is fucking rotten. I watched it all happen in total despair. This lady, and she was a lady, believed in her God. What she would have said to that god after what it let her experience is anyone's guess. Life is wonderful. Clinging to the last vestiges of the biology at the end of it is not wonderful by any stretch of the imagination. Prioritising the young and strong to live their lives normally is the best option for all of society. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I guess the point of it was ~£1000 a week for the care home, gotta keep the money moving. Seriously, euthanasia needs to be a thing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I guess the point of it was ~£1000 a week for the care home, gotta keep the money moving. Seriously, euthanasia needs to be a thing. And again, I understand why that is controversial. People who aren't ready being coerced by family after the inheritance etc. But as I said, it's something that will have to be confronted relatively soon. To me, what I witnessed was utter cruelty. And folk here are asserting that maintaining poor sods in these dire straits for a bit longer should be a national priority. Just to suffer that bit more. Sorry. Can't get my head around the motivation at all. Edited July 15, 2020 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) I believe the term you are looking for is lebensunwert - the Germans decided on this in 1941 in the T4 Aktion - 70,000 used for practice until they felt ready to handle the Jews, Gays and Gypsies (+ the odd religious who felt the policy was somewhat wrong) Edited July 15, 2020 by Frances 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Frances said: I believe the term you are looking for is lebensunwert - the Germans decided on this in 1941 in the T4 Aktion - 70,000 used for practice until they felt ready to handle the Jews, Gays and Gypsies (+ the odd religious who felt the policy was somewhat wrong) Best example of a straw man argument I ever saw. Congratulations. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I think it must be based on the premise that all human life is sacred (well some of it anyway) and must be preserved as long as possible, tied in to the Hippocratic Oath etc etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: But the argument here is similar to that with health services. If there is another outbreak (and there will be if we drop the Island's isolation) then, even if you don't reimpose restrictions, you can't force people to consume. Even without an outbreak people may be more cautious about going out and doing things like eating in restaurants, once new cases start appearing they are likely to stop going out - just as they did before formal restrictions started in March. So again it's a false dichotomy - unrestricted movement won't just bring back Covid-19, it will crash the economy as well. ....but the restaurant has alluded to moving on to a new project. So does look like they will be opening as something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: The percentages look small because they are small. As for Tanrogan , they will have suffered because so many offices still have next to no one back in them so lunchtime trade must be very thin. Opening borders is an extremely difficult subject to tackle but at some point we will need to get on with things. And that is exactly why the borders can remain closed to tourists. Tanrogans lunchtime trade was critical to its survival. Same for many other restaurants in town, especially. Tanrogan are taking a break and re-inventing itself for current times. Just as several others have done. As of Monday next week, locals can go and visit uk relatives and friends, or go in holiday. 14 days isolation is the required penalty and deterrent. Some teachers and unemployed will go off. Some of them will bring the virus back. At that point, provided it does not get back into th community, we should not have to lock down. Open the borders to tourists and we will be in full lock down by the beginning of September, just in time for the schools to go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: The percentages look small because they are small. 4.3% of those diagnosed have died across the world. 7% of those diagnosed on the Isle of Man died. Small issue I guess, that's how you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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